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Q u o t e:
There is a good chance we may change the Improved Berserker Stance effect from 15% Strength to 20% Strength to make up for all the AP that gets thrown around in buffs, enchants and consumables.

There are also more rings etc. in Ulduar with Strength, and more leather with Agi instead of AP.

Adding 2 more ranks to Armored to the Teeth is also possible, but that would probably be too big a change for 3.1.

We want plate to be the best in slot for warriors, not leather.

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I personaly am currently leveling my own warrior and plan on a tg build. I understand the changes from being owned by tg warriors :P I also agree witht he itemiztion issues of more stam on the none tank gear then the tank gear.

{quote]Adding 2 more ranks to Armored to the Teeth is also possible, but that would probably be too big a change for 3.1[/quote]
Instead of bloating the tree more giving us less options maybe change the amount of armor needed per point or just raising the ap bonus would be a better solution then taking away even more talent points from us by increasing the amount needed to max a talent out.

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Q u o t e:
There is a good chance we may change the Improved Berserker Stance effect from 15% Strength to 20% Strength to make up for all the AP that gets thrown around in buffs, enchants and consumables.

There are also more rings etc. in Ulduar with Strength, and more leather with Agi instead of AP.

Adding 2 more ranks to Armored to the Teeth is also possible, but that would probably be too big a change for 3.1.

We want plate to be the best in slot for warriors, not leather.

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I have never liked wearing leather. So be that as it may. yes please please do those buffs.

No offense but with the nerfs to fury for 3.1, and Arms getting very little compensation for being last place in dps plate. i dont believe this would be too big of a change. Armored to the Teeth being buffed would also help Arms slightly in the pvp environment. where we seriously still some consideration, especially with S6 on the way.

Do we have any word on Arms and pvp for 3.1. Changes and such? or is S6 gonna still see warriors sitting out?

Please, GC, can you explain to us why strength based gear is itemized worse than agi/AP?

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?items=4.-2&filter=minle=213;cr=82:20:42:45;crs=1:1:5:5;crv=0:1:1:1

That's a list of the strength based DPS rings from 3.1, as far as WoWHead has discovered. They aren't good.

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Q u o t e:
The other funny thing is seeing so many warriors from the wotlk beta forum posting in this thread. Tanneric would be proud!

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All of this has happened before... and all of it will happen again.

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Q u o t e:
The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

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I think most of us would be happy to see some of that excess stamina go into agi. We wouldn't get AP out of it but we would get a bit more crit and maybe some AC (a tiny bit of indirect ap??) in addition to the crit rating already on the gear.

Just don't pull an Onslaught!

I don't know why you think armor with AP and Strength is silly. Rogues get 1 AP per Agi, so effectively, for a rogue, that leather all has AP... and AP. I understand that 1 str = 2 ap for a warrior so you don't want to do that. But we get 0 ap from agility.

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Q u o t e:
The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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It does feel a little silly having to give DPS warriors more Stamina than Strength though, right? ;P

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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How does shifting Stamina to Strength a straight buff to only Warriors? Correct me if I'm wrong but Paladins and Death Knights also have use for Strength in which it increases their attack power? Paladins also have a talent that increases their STR % too? Not just with Kings but a T1 Prot Talent? You could also make Strength cost less item points on our gear, so it balances out with all the free stats given to Leather.

Why do you want dps plate to have fewer stats. All armor could of had the same amount of stats then the classes balanced around that.

They probably don't want to buff AtTT cause of protection.

If they did fix plate they then would have to go back and rebalance warriors, ret paladins, and death knights. So from a workload point of view its easier to do it this way.

But at the start of the new expansion when it was in beta they should of fixed plate back then.

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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Change how agility scales into crit for warriors. It's already different from class to class.

Or... don't even do that. I'll take Str + Agi + Crit gear over the current crap.

Problem Solved.

Not asking for more str. You replaced our crit with stamina. All that needs to be said. I wear one piece of leather. Your reduction to crit rating on the t8 gear is ......

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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Can't you distribute some of the points into crit rating, arp rating, etc vs. just shifting those points into STR? I think one of the reasons Leather is so attractive is the extra crit, from the combined AGI and combat ratings on the armor.

Your issue seems to be that you dislike plate classes taking leather over plate. Wouldn't the logical solution be just go give plate more desirable stats so that they do desire plate over leather?

160something stamina on a single piece doesn't contribute much damage.

Unless of course you give non-prot warriors a stamina-> dmg conversion akin to prot paladins?

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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Agi is more of a benefit that the gobs of stam our gear has. Also considering our T8 is 130 crit rating LESS than our 7.5 dumping stam and either upping the crit rating on pieces that have it or adding crit rating or AGi to provide some crit would be better than current, but not so over the top as converting Stam points to Strength points.

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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Hit rating? Expertise? Armor Pen? Crit rating?

Are you really running out of stats to itemize with??

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Q u o t e:
There is a good chance we may change the Improved Berserker Stance effect from 15% Strength to 20% Strength to make up for all the AP that gets thrown around in buffs, enchants and consumables.

There are also more rings etc. in Ulduar with Strength, and more leather with Agi instead of AP.

Adding 2 more ranks to Armored to the Teeth is also possible, but that would probably be too big a change for 3.1.

We want plate to be the best in slot for warriors, not leather.

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GC, You know how to make plate the best in slot, and it's most definitely to stop making dps plate have 38 more stamina and 16 less strength then TANK plate.

Not making that up either, compare
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=45134
To these
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=45594

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Q u o t e:
Why do you want dps plate to have fewer stats.

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I think you should re-question your assumptions that you used to ask this question. >.>

It's not that there's any kind of want for plate gear to have a fewer number of stats. It's that there just isn't another convenient stat to add.

Agility provides crit% and attack power for the leather-based classes. It only provides crit for us. And strength only provides attack power.

It's kind of a Catch-22 in the underlying design, and there isn't an elegant solution aside from the Imp Bers Stance change: Either you re-work the entire itemization model, or you re-work all of the attack power coefficients on every warrior ability... or you just provide a single scalar talent like they did.


Game-wide change, class-wide change, or a single talent changed. Your pick. ;)

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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How can't fury dps not be low after we losing so much? Expertise, rage, raw damage from tg and now a whole lot of ap (and scaling)... Are we playing the same game?

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Q u o t e:


The root issue is that on the leather we tend to add Agi or AP as that additional stat. The problem is that armor with both Strength and AP is a little silly, and plate with Agi isn't that useful for warriors. So we don't actually have another stat to split.

The alternative is to shift some of the Stamina into Strength. That is just a straight buff to warriors though, and we might have to rebalance all of the damage abilities to make up for it. Long-term this is something we might do. Short-term it might push warriors farther away from being balanced. That might be a fun thought if you are of the mindset that Fury dps is low, but it's not going to do anyone any favors if it ended up overshooting the target by a great amount.

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Huh? Do you realize agility increases AP AND Crit to rogues and hunters. And those pieces often have additional AP AND Crit on them as well?

How silly is THAT?

And perhaps I should remind you that you simply reduced fury damage and rage gen by 10%?

Why should we have to spend 8 talent points to make gear ment for us actualy be good for us? Shouldn't plate in general be better than leather for plate classes?