Some fights need tauntable bosses, such as Anub'rekhan, because there may only be two tanks (10man) and one isn't on the boss at all for parts of the fight.

Can't say I'm a fan - taunt ping pong was a good way to deal with "oh crap" moments during a heavy enrage - Farliena comes to mind quickly(Was also funny to watch). Seems like a thing to encourage, imo, if you developed it further so it took decent timing, rather than just out right removing. Say, make them immune to taunt for 6 seconds after a taunt: you go too early, you've just wasted the cd and that can be bad... real bad.

Again, can't say "good idea" but you're the guy with the numbers, we'll adapt.

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Q u o t e:
This was an Ulduar issue. Previously, many bosses were taunt immune and taunt had a short range. With both of those changes, it was possible to ping pong bosses between multiple tanks in order to avoid anyone taking much damage. This goes beyond clever use of an ability by players (and isn't *that* clever since it has been around forever) and into an exploit that trivializes encounters. With this change, you should be able to taunt when you need to but not keep the boss confused and ineffective.

The diminishing returns do not actually work on the current PTR build despite the patch notes, but will be implemented soon.

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Making a blanket change to taunt instead of giving a boss a personal taunt DR seems like it asking to create issues on the back of solving a few issues.

You also encouraged the ping/pong design by refusing to fix Razuvious even though people have been pointing out since beta that is breaks the bring the player not the class mold. If this change to taunt goes live you will have nerfed both non-priest alternatives.

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Q u o t e:
And of course making everything untauntable means that they can't make bosses that require tank switches (which is an easy way to make a fight require multiple tanks.)

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Sure they can and they have done it plenty of times before WotLK. Just have to make sure the secondary tanks can get rage and some form and its fine to make encounters that require tank switches as long as their is some sort of threat reduction that occurs to make the 10% passable examples being Void Reaver or Bloodboil (or even original 4H where they could be taunted but due to Marks reducing the aggro on everyone it was fairly easy in 18 or so seconds to surpass the tank on threat if you get 2 taunt resists).

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Q u o t e:
Some fights need tauntable bosses, such as Anub'rekhan, because there may only be two tanks (10man) and one isn't on the boss at all for parts of the fight.

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Why? The fight hasn't changed in theory what you are supposed to do since the original Naxx where Anub'rekhan wasn't taunted besides you can kill it before the locust swarm.

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Q u o t e:


I'm a little confused as to why also. Making (most) bosses untauntable required OT's to pay attention a little bit more closely. It was more enjoyable to OT knowing I had to maintain a certain aggro rather than just know I have to dps (poorly) and taunt should the tank die.

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Because some fights require the OT to leave the MT's side to pick up adds? You people even raid or what?

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Q u o t e:


Because some fights require the OT to leave the MT's side to pick up adds? You people even raid or what?

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It's cool if some bosses are tauntable. It would also be cool if adds weren't the only requirement to make a boss tauntable. It's lame, in my opinion, if every, or almost every, boss is tauntable because the boss can always easily be picked up if the person tanking it goes down.

For instance, Sarth has tons of adds. But, why should he be tauntable? What purpose, other than allowing an OT to easily pick up a boss, does that serve? It's fine if you think that's how it should be, it's just not something that I agree with. Please don't assume that I've never raided because of that.

I don't have an issue getting a tanking spot - I typically run only 10 mans due to time constraints, although I have done a couple of 25 mans, and raided up to Hyjal in TBC. I preferred requiring more than 2 tanks for many fights, and feel like a small part of the reason the lowered numbered of tanks required in raids is because any OT can easily switch from tanking adds to tanking a boss, although a much larger portion has to do with the mechanics of every fight currently in the endgame.

Plus, it gets to be somewhat annoying if people accidentally taunt bosses ;)

personally i LIKE having bosses be taunt-able, it means that if the healers Eff up on one part of the raid its not always an instant wipe. Now you may think this is a bad thing but it still takes a pretty skilled and aware tank to recognize the situation, taunt, and get the boss repositioned before he kills the raid, or enough of it that its a wipe anyway. Personally i have saved raids on more than one occasion when the tank went down and a quick taunt saved the day, i think thats kind of cool.

This change encourages two of the fundamentals of raiding to return:

Watch your threat whilst dpsing or you get to be the tank.
Don't let the tank die or the raid wipes.


As it stands now with tauntable bosses dps can just go balls out from the get go and if they pull agro the tank can just taunt it back, problem solved. Lets go back to fights like vael where your OT had to be 2nd on threat when the 1st tank died, or even better like bloodboil. Forcing a tank change through threat generation only required skill and coordination between your tanks instead of the easymode way it is now.

NOOOOOOO!!!!

I won't be able to play Bigglepong no more. :(

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Q u o t e:
I'm not sure this will have major implications on threat management on "normal" boss attempts. This change was really put in just to prevent a situation where tanks would not take damage because the boss could never reach them before being taunted away. We aren't changing our design of letting most mobs be tauntable.

It shouldn't affect the Razuvious fight. The diminishing returns only lasts 15 seconds (not the whole fight) and that encounter is timed more for 30 second taunts. Secondly, we can just make the Understudy taunts not diminish.

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So would they be immune for the 15 seconds?

What if the main tank tuants, dies, and the OT has to try and pick it up?

So to get this straight, whenever a mob is taunted the mob will be taunt-immune for 15 seconds? Or is the mechanic more complicated than that?

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Q u o t e:


It shouldn't affect the Razuvious fight. The diminishing returns only lasts 15 seconds (not the whole fight) and that encounter is timed more for 30 second taunts. Secondly, we can just make the Understudy taunts not diminish.

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This will break the hunter kiting alternative to this fight, which is a shame. It's an awful lot of fun.

The understudies have a 30 second cooldown taunt, but the bone barrier only lasts 20 seconds. If one guy taunts late (at 19 seconds) and the other guy taunts right when his comes off cooldown (11 seconds later) you'd see problems.

I think this is a kludgy solution to a problem. Why not simply make bosses that you feel are exploitable have a summoning mechanic like onyxia or whatever? It can work like the everquest one, where it only happens when the boss is under a certain percentage of health, so it won't trigger during a pull.

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Q u o t e:


Making a blanket change to taunt instead of giving a boss a personal taunt DR seems like it asking to create issues on the back of solving a few issues.

You also encouraged the ping/pong design by refusing to fix Razuvious even though people have been pointing out since beta that is breaks the bring the player not the class mold. If this change to taunt goes live you will have nerfed both non-priest alternatives.

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just remember those adds that are being MCed will still need to taunt Rav often, this will totally mess with taunt DR, especially if someone messes up an MC and I need to add a taunt to the DR, to keep him from blowing people up.

ATM, you ahve to taunt him once every ~15-20 seconds, if it takes 20+ seconds to reset DR on taunt, this could make the fight very tough.

[edit]lol at not seeing GCs new post at all.

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Q u o t e:
I'm not sure this will have major implications on threat management on "normal" boss attempts. This change was really put in just to prevent a situation where tanks would not take damage because the boss could never reach them before being taunted away. We aren't changing our design of letting most mobs be tauntable.

It shouldn't affect the Razuvious fight. The diminishing returns only lasts 15 seconds (not the whole fight) and that encounter is timed more for 30 second taunts. Secondly, we can just make the Understudy taunts not diminish.

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Might I suggest a "fully transparent" approach that works something like this:

1. When someone taunts a mob, until 15 seconds are up or until that person dies, no one else can taunt it.

2. A counter is put on the mob (or better yet, a more visible status change like a skin-tone coloration or an emblem over their head) that shows the mob is taunted. It needs to be big and bold so it's obvious someone did it.

3. An alternate to making the mob immune to further taunts--rather than using diminishing returns--would be that a second taunt works, but converts the first taunt into a damage adder so that it is an interesting choice to taunt, but you add damage every time it is done. You could call this effect "Infuriation" or some such.

Diminishing returns are invisible and therefore are bad. Making them visible is better, but integrating the impact into the story of the combat is best yet. I would save diminishing returns for pvp since only pvpers should have to put up with bad ideas, not pve'ers. ;)

I know I should post this in suggestions since it is so detailed. I hereby agree to abide by the posting requirements of the Suggestions forum in writing with respect to use of this suggestion by Blizzard. I also authorize the post to be moved or copy this to Suggestions by a community representative of Blizzard if so desired.

Saeul/Catumkin

Well, on the one hand, I have to admit I'm a little annoyed, because inevitably, I'll taunt, some hunter who forgot to turn growl off will have his pet taunt, then I'll be in a pretty pickle then, since that 2 drs. Do I then use my third to get it off the pet, or do I deal with not having aggro, becoming rage starved very quickly, and losing threat because of it.

On the other, ping ponging bosses is kind of dumb mechanic and it shouldn't be possible.

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Q u o t e:
I'm not sure this will have major implications on threat management on "normal" boss attempts. This change was really put in just to prevent a situation where tanks would not take damage because the boss could never reach them before being taunted away. We aren't changing our design of letting most mobs be tauntable.

It shouldn't affect the Razuvious fight. The diminishing returns only lasts 15 seconds (not the whole fight) and that encounter is timed more for 30 second taunts. Secondly, we can just make the Understudy taunts not diminish.

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They are talking about alternative methods to the Raz fight that follows the "bring the player..." motto, that fight requires 2 priests (shadow for best results) which is VERY class specific, people found work arounds using chain taunt. This change would make this impossible and would again go back to requiring 2 shadow priests.

Sarth+3 can't require a DK or a druid but Raz can require 2 shadow priests? for shame...

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Q u o t e:


So would they be immune for the 15 seconds?

What if the main tank tuants, dies, and the OT has to try and pick it up?

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how DR works it each time he is taunted the if he was taunted within the last 15 seconds, the taunt durtion is hlved, if the duration would be pushed below 1 sec, he is immune


at least I thouhgt that is how it works.

Anyway I imagine it working like

1st taunt - 6 seconds
2nd taunt- 3 seconds
3rd taunt- 1.5 seconds
4th taunt- immune

the 4th taunt could be almost a 45 seconds after the 1st if there was no 15 second period in which the mob is taunted. As soon as the mob goes 15 seconds in a row without being taunted, the DR gets reset as if you had never taunted him.

This really annoys me personally, I felt that ping ponging Rav was a very creative solution to a very poor encounter design that blizz threw at us, by making each raid have 2 priests.