Well, as a few people have distilled out, the issue mainly seems to be one of control. We don't have a good way to control when the bloom goes off.

It might be overpowered, but I think someone suggested that if you tried to stack a 4th bloom onto a 3 stack, it should just proc the stack, instead of refreshing the duration. Kind of like a second Swiftmend, I guess.

They could also pull out the stacking aspect of the spell, and possibly make it ramp up - like a kind of reverse Wild Growth - to the bloom at the end. We'd be rewarded for letting it reach the full duration because of larger ticks, and we'd be rewarded for letting it bloom from mana return. We wouldn't be punished (in terms of GCD loss) because we wouldn't be "wasting" 2 GCDs re-casting the spell.

This wouldn't bother me nearly as much if we were given some control on the bloom portion.

If the bloom were to become a living seed/prom type effect on the person for xx seconds it'd be just fine, but as of now the healing is just a guess from 9 seconds earlier that is nearly 100% overheal in pve.

I like the ramp-up (reverse wild-growth) idea but I'm afraid it'd suffer from the same problem: uneven healing. The LB contribution would be low then moderate then high then really high then low again.

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Q u o t e:
This wouldn't bother me nearly as much if we were given some control on the bloom portion.

If the bloom were to become a living seed/prom type effect on the person for xx seconds it'd be just fine, but as of now the healing is just a guess from 9 seconds earlier that is nearly 100% overheal in pve.

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I was thinking the bloom could be made to ALWAYS proc Living Seed. That'd certainly give us more incentive to work the bloom into our healing strategy.

If it was meant for Mana efficiency I'd like an explanation as to how it's more efficient?

Generally as of now, lets say LB is 350 Mana.

We cast 3 stacks on the tank: (350)3 = 1050 Initial Cost
We cast 1 LB every 9 seconds: 350/9 = 38 Mana per second

patch 3.1

Now, LB is 700 Mana.

We cast 3 stacks on the tank: (700)3 = 2100 Initial Cost
We cast 1 LB every 9 seconds: 700/9 = 77 Mana per second

or

We cast 3 stacks on the tank: (700)3 = 2100 Initial Cost
Bloom -> Recast stacks: ((350)3 - 2100)/9 = 116 Mana per second

I hope I'm wrong on that, my math is kinda terrible because I haven't really tried much problem solving in the past 20 years.

Another concern is how to actually manage the bloom to be more effective when it does actually bloom. Currently we let it bloom if we need to, but after the patch it seems we may fall more towards letting it bloom over the seconds. Which would also tear us away from getting the glyph that improves it's duration, and possibly removing our talent that increases it over time.

Some aspect of control over the bloom would be good, but that's effectively giving us a second instant-cast heal - albeit one with a preparation requirement. I'm a little worried as to whether that would make us overpowered.

Maybe Lifebloom should be split into two spells? A stacking HoT that ticks quickly, and a short-term buff that does no healing until the bloom? Say, cast, wait 3 seconds, then receive decent-sized bloom.

I'd like to also pipe up that, by and large, this thread is fairly civil. Let's keep it that way! Druids may be changing, sure, but we don't know if it's going to be for better or for worse. Let's keep an open mind and play around with things before we reject them as bad.

(I would hate for my chosen class to become the new Priests on the healer forum...)

Well first remember that Nature's Splendor adds 2 ticks and the glyph adds 1 and those are a big 50% boon to the spell's HoT efficiency. The numbers above may be correct for mana cost, but they don't speak HPM at all.

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

We added the bonus to the bloom to improve its use in PvP, where you can't always keep 3 stacks rolling, and for say throwing a single spell on a rogue where you don't plan on keeping it rolling.

Keep in mind that yanking the hot removal of DKs is also a druid buff for PvP.

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Ok. Any comment on Regrowth / Nourish?

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

We added the bonus to the bloom to improve its use in PvP, where you can't always keep 3 stacks rolling, and for say throwing a single spell on a rogue where you don't plan on keeping it rolling.

Keep in mind that yanking the hot removal of DKs is also a druid buff for PvP.

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Normally don't you guys actually wait until someone jumps to the top of the food chain to nerf them? You don't even know how it's going to play out yet before this nerf in Ulduar...

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

We added the bonus to the bloom to improve its use in PvP, where you can't always keep 3 stacks rolling, and for say throwing a single spell on a rogue where you don't plan on keeping it rolling.

Keep in mind that yanking the hot removal of DKs is also a druid buff for PvP.

Edit: I meant to add that we discussed getting the same effect by having the 2nd or 3rd application of the spell on the same target increase in mana cost. But that becomes pretty complex to explain in a tooltip and might be too mathy for quick calculations when deciding whether you want to roll blooms or not.

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But this change breaks it for rolling on even one tank. There is very little point of stacking the spell at all now.

I could be wrong, but nerfing your heals and tanks into a degressive state (instead of progressive) basically makes previous content harder. It's going to be odd when people can clear Ulduar, because it is tuned around this, but can't clear Naxx on fresh characters due to the nerfs.

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

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Could you have tested without the change first?

Or nerfed the glyph?

Seems like there are a lot of things you could do that would reduce efficiency without making the spell feel so convoluted.

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Q u o t e:


You list one thread that had a hopelessly vague subject line until after I started this, one that was full of QQ and deemed unworthy of contribution by GC and one that was created after mine.

Spare the lectures and participate in the discussion imo.

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Dude, chill out.

I'm pretty sure I called the first one a general discussion, and the 3rd one a QQ thread, so, no secrets there. As for the other one, I didn't look at the time stamps. I just tend to gravitate towards threads that have math.

/shrug

Anyway, looks like you've been deemed worthiest of the druids, so grats.

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

We added the bonus to the bloom to improve its use in PvP, where you can't always keep 3 stacks rolling, and for say throwing a single spell on a rogue where you don't plan on keeping it rolling.

Keep in mind that yanking the hot removal of DKs is also a druid buff for PvP.

Edit: I meant to add that we discussed getting the same effect by having the 2nd or 3rd application of the spell on the same target increase in mana cost. But that becomes pretty complex to explain in a tooltip and might be too mathy for quick calculations when deciding whether you want to roll blooms or not.

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appreciate the feedback. problem most of us have is relying on an unreliable bloom in coordination with unpredicatble tank damage to make the spell shine. takes way way too much out of our control.

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

We added the bonus to the bloom to improve its use in PvP, where you can't always keep 3 stacks rolling, and for say throwing a single spell on a rogue where you don't plan on keeping it rolling.

Keep in mind that yanking the hot removal of DKs is also a druid buff for PvP.

Edit: I meant to add that we discussed getting the same effect by having the 2nd or 3rd application of the spell on the same target increase in mana cost. But that becomes pretty complex to explain in a tooltip and might be too mathy for quick calculations when deciding whether you want to roll blooms or not.

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Are druids intended to continue to roll lifeblooms in PvE and just consume mana faster, or is there an intention to change druid healing style away from LB rolling?

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Q u o t e:
Rolling Lifeblooms on 2-3 tanks is just hands down one of the most -- probably the most -- efficient heals in the game. We didn't want to nerf the amount Lifebloom heals, but we were concerned druids would jump to the top of the healer stack pretty quickly with the recent mana changes.

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Honest question, though it may not sound so, are druids not meant to be on top then?

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Q u o t e:


appreciate the feedback. problem most of us have is relying on an unreliable bloom in coordination with unpredicatble tank damage to make the spell shine. takes way way too much out of our control.

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This is my concern as well. Planning the bloom is something out of our control unless we have DBM and we're raiding and we see a timer for when the boss is about to do something massive. Other than that, the bloom is out of our control and will most likely be nothing but a big over heal defeating it's purpose.