World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin change

Elistan

< The Prophecy >

Nazgrel

60. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:12:02 PM PST

Q u o t e:

That build is cynical.

Of course it is. The point is that everything that Blizzard gave us this expansion is not really worth taking now. Why take a talent that only going to add to my overhealing anyway. Hell, Beacon of light you can get away with not having. Now what are we left with a BC pally. Hey anyone up for BT or Sunwell. Oh wait I can't handle those anymore.

Lissanna

< Ergo Bibamus >

Cenarion Circle

61. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:12:04 PM PST

Q u o t e:

IoL is significant to a degree you are understating. SS was more of a workaround gimmick, but the IoL change is pretty much a direct cut to throughput.

join the nerfed healers club.

Lissanna, 80 druid, Elune

"My only allegiance is to Elune. You'll find no horns among my owlbeast brethren. We are the few, the proud, the antlered." -Pavonum

Kyri

< Scions of Elune >

The Venture Co

63. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:14:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Several of those changes were made for PvE reasons.

...

Yeah. 'cause what I always think about Holy in PvE is that Holy's ability to provide mitigation to multiple targets and an RNG based faster casting of our big heal.

Really.

Not that whole 'infinite mana' thing or 'int stacking more valuable than any other item stat'.

Sorry, but these changes make no sense. I love the Infusion of Light speed increase mainly for when I've gotta throw a lotta healing on the target, but only because I force the proc.

Seriously. What's going on with Holy? Can we have a real middle heal so you can nerf the hell out of Holy Light?

Q u o t e:
Meeeeeeeeeeeeetterrrrsss
Meters METERS meters rwarawragalblahblahblahrawrgblarg meeteeersssss
my precioussss -WAHAHAHAHAHA-

-Sallyss

Rasul

< Dominance >

Winterhoof

64. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:17:57 PM PST

Q u o t e:
One of these days they'll figure out why everyone hates Sacred Cleansing... a chance on a chance for a chance that something happens? What?

Sounds like a lot of my dates back in college.

Sungamnori

< The Best Guild Ever >

Ner'zhul

65. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:19:20 PM PST

Just remember, they don't want us using a lot of different spells to heal... just FoL.

And all I gotta say to you
Wannabe, gonnabe, seal judgin', blessing buffin' prankstas
Cuz when your bubble wears off what the @#$% you gonna do
Damn it feels good to be a pally

Quelo

< Phobia >

Thrall

66. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:24:10 PM PST

Well they runied the Holy Pally again wonder what i should reroll this time

I dont heal Warriors,Druids,Shammys,Deathknights,Rogues,Mages,Warlocks,Priests or Pallys

..what do i heal? wanna raid with me and find out?

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

68. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:27:04 PM PST

Sacred Shield was possibly only a problem in PvP on the larger teams (or for rage generation, but we fixed that separately).

It was really a PvE problem because the damage prevention was really starting to add up in Ulduar. We know this was supposed to be one of the answers for how paladins can "group heal." However, you shouldn't need to do a ton of group healing in raids, and in PvP or heroic dungeons, you should still have enough tools to manage: fast heals, the HL glyph, Beacon, etc.

The topic of whether Holy paladin healing is too simplistic is a good conversation to have, though probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some players like a play style where they don't have many different spells to weave together so we try to offer ways to play like that. What I mean is that there are players who like the Holy healing style as it is. We think we can improve it, as we think we can improve most aspects of the game, but we want to be careful to do so without ruining what it is they enjoy (or what makes the class distinct).

Ahmon

Dark Iron

69. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:28:38 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Sacred Shield was possibly only a problem in PvP on the larger teams (or for rage generation, but we fixed that separately).

It was really a PvE problem because the damage prevention was really starting to add up in Ulduar. We know this was supposed to be one of the answers for how paladins can "group heal." However, you shouldn't need to do a ton of group healing in raids, and in PvP or heroic dungeons, you should still have enough tools to manage: fast heals, the HL glyph, Beacon, etc.

The topic of whether Holy paladin healing is too simplistic is a good conversation to have, though probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some players like a play style where they don't have many different spells to weave together so we try to offer ways to play like that. What I mean is that there are players who like the Holy healing style as it is. We think we can improve it, as we think we can improve most aspects of the game, but we want to be careful to do so without ruining what it is they enjoy (or what makes the class distinct).

Why nerf IoL, then?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dark+Iron&n=Achamian

Alorin

< Matador >

Madoran

70. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:28:54 PM PST

I never ever post about this stuff, but this change has put me over the top. The very few things I enjoy about paladin healing are being removed and honestly it makes me not want to bother being a healer anymore...

Sacred Shield, I LOVED being able to heal Gothik simply with Sacred Shield, it was fun to me, it's fun to see little shiny bubbles surrounding everyone in the raid cause when I'd get bored of spamming Holy Light this would give me something to do.

IoL, losing this sucks, I loved getting this to proc and getting a super fast holy light in, I DO NOT need more crit on Holy Light, I'm already critting 52%+ (with buffs) on holy light, at the raid we're going that's going to be near 100% by the end of this xpac, It's nice and all, but I just don't need any more crit.

Now all there is to look forward to is spamming Holy Light as it's the only spell that's even remotely effective anymore.. so much fun...... yay................................................

Obitussancta

< Twilights Void >

Terenas

71. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:30:04 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Sacred Shield was possibly only a problem in PvP on the larger teams (or for rage generation, but we fixed that separately).

It was really a PvE problem because the damage prevention was really starting to add up in Ulduar. We know this was supposed to be one of the answers for how paladins can "group heal." However, you shouldn't need to do a ton of group healing in raids, and in PvP or heroic dungeons, you should still have enough tools to manage: fast heals, the HL glyph, Beacon, etc.

The topic of whether Holy paladin healing is too simplistic is a good conversation to have, though probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some players like a play style where they don't have many different spells to weave together so we try to offer ways to play like that. What I mean is that there are players who like the Holy healing style as it is. We think we can improve it, as we think we can improve most aspects of the game, but we want to be careful to do so without ruining what it is they enjoy (or what makes the class distinct).

Just so i understand. you took one of the few things that you have given holy pallys heal wise since vanilla wow... one of our only abilitys to deal with any group healing... and nerfed it because absorbing 2500 damage and letting us crit a 7k heal was too powerful?

I just dont understand where you are going with holy pallys....
You are pigeon holing us into a raid only MT healer.

[ Post edited by Obitussancta ]

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Alorin

< Matador >

Madoran

72. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:30:19 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Sacred Shield was possibly only a problem in PvP on the larger teams (or for rage generation, but we fixed that separately).

It was really a PvE problem because the damage prevention was really starting to add up in Ulduar. We know this was supposed to be one of the answers for how paladins can "group heal." However, you shouldn't need to do a ton of group healing in raids, and in PvP or heroic dungeons, you should still have enough tools to manage: fast heals, the HL glyph, Beacon, etc.

The topic of whether Holy paladin healing is too simplistic is a good conversation to have, though probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some players like a play style where they don't have many different spells to weave together so we try to offer ways to play like that. What I mean is that there are players who like the Holy healing style as it is. We think we can improve it, as we think we can improve most aspects of the game, but we want to be careful to do so without ruining what it is they enjoy (or what makes the class distinct).

SS was pretty much the only other spell I bothered to cast, taking that away from me gives me 50% less to do in a raid, guess I'll just roll a DK like everyone else.

Jesal

< Mors Certa >

Kil'jaeden

73. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:31:57 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Sacred Shield was possibly only a problem in PvP on the larger teams (or for rage generation, but we fixed that separately).

It was really a PvE problem because the damage prevention was really starting to add up in Ulduar. We know this was supposed to be one of the answers for how paladins can "group heal." However, you shouldn't need to do a ton of group healing in raids, and in PvP or heroic dungeons, you should still have enough tools to manage: fast heals, the HL glyph, Beacon, etc.

The topic of whether Holy paladin healing is too simplistic is a good conversation to have, though probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some players like a play style where they don't have many different spells to weave together so we try to offer ways to play like that. What I mean is that there are players who like the Holy healing style as it is. We think we can improve it, as we think we can improve most aspects of the game, but we want to be careful to do so without ruining what it is they enjoy (or what makes the class distinct).

For the sake of making encounters more "difficult" by limiting damage absorbtion, why not just make more dynamic encounters that rely on more than the same mechanics we've grown accustomed to?

Anduillia

< Revenant Reborn >

Bloodhoof

74. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:32:06 PM PST

I like that I dont have to worry about pressing a ton of different buttons. With that said, I enjoyed SS because it was still more than me spamming HL while watching tv. Thanks for making this class even more boring.

Fives

< Lost Chapter >

Drak'thul

75. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:33:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Sacred Shield was possibly only a problem in PvP on the larger teams (or for rage generation, but we fixed that separately).

It was really a PvE problem because the damage prevention was really starting to add up in Ulduar. We know this was supposed to be one of the answers for how paladins can "group heal." However, you shouldn't need to do a ton of group healing in raids, and in PvP or heroic dungeons, you should still have enough tools to manage: fast heals, the HL glyph, Beacon, etc.

The topic of whether Holy paladin healing is too simplistic is a good conversation to have, though probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some players like a play style where they don't have many different spells to weave together so we try to offer ways to play like that. What I mean is that there are players who like the Holy healing style as it is. We think we can improve it, as we think we can improve most aspects of the game, but we want to be careful to do so without ruining what it is they enjoy (or what makes the class distinct).

I'll keep it short: the problem with Paladins, and it is exaggerated by this change to Sacred Shield, is they are very narrowly designed. They heal one target now, or with Beacon; two. They have big heal little heal instant heal. Ret suffers the same thing. They have a FCFS rotation. No procs or chains. The Ret tree is "+X%, +Y crit. +Z% damage, +N crit." The design space on Paladins seems very narrow.

There are rumors that the Paladin class was designed to be the "beginniner" class. I believe it more and more every day.

Odes

< Agitprop Theatre >

Earthen Ring

76. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:34:30 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Just so i understand. you took one of the few things that you have given holy pallys heal wise since vanilla wow... one of our only abilitys to deal with any group healing... and nerfed it because absorbing 2500 damage and letting us crit a 7k heal was too powerful?

It absorbs a lot more than that over the duration, and even more when used across a group. If it was doing too much in the new raid encounters being tested, why wouldn't you expect a nerf?

Stéphanie

< Band of Misfits >

Azuremyst

77. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:34:34 PM PST

The change to Sacred Shield is still a bit ridiculous...

Maybe the ability to cast it on so many people is overpowered, I agree. Give it a cooldown, or limits it another way, for example it can only exists on 3 person at a time, no more.

Just limiting it to 1 is way too much and also removes from the uniqueness of the spell.

Asix

Gul'dan

79. Re: PvP continues to ruin PvE, re: Paladin ch 03/06/2009 02:39:05 PM PST

As a warrior, I'm gonna have to agree about the gimmicky warrior change. Not at all the solution I'd like to see.

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