Even with the rolling Immo Trap (once implemented/fixed) it still requires us to get into melee at least once during the fight, to get the dot on the mob. Without Trap Launcher, that refreshing is pretty much useless and still requires us to run in, which means we might as well trap dance for the proc.....

You can't do some of these things without other things being put into place. Trap Launched is necessary to make these talents work nicely, and have synergy. If you put trap launcher in the game, the SV tree will be PERFECT the synergy with ALL the talents will make the tree very nice, and require minimal talenting into other trees (mainly 11 points into MM to get GFTT)

So to sum it up, Trap Launcher needs to get in the game, this will take away all the problems people have with the tree not working well together (you are still encouraging trap dancing to force LnL procs, which doesn't allow for the bonus on Sniper Training).

Ughhh it all sounds too complicate.I get a headache thinking of all the dots you gotta keep up.(i didnt roll a lock for a reason) Probably back to BM for me, so i can go back to mashing one button the entire fight.

Down with trap dancing!

[edit]: I love you GC.

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Q u o t e:
You won't be trapping raid bosses to get LnL procs, even if they are immune to the effects. You probably won't be trap dancing much at all in PvE. You should really use Black Arrow for that purpose.

If the proc rate ends up being too low, that is certainly something we are willing to adjust.

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well cant you already tell right now that it will be lower, if not much lower, than what it is now? id say having it up 50% less time would be an indication that it will in fact be too low

In my opinion, take out Black Arrow and replace it with Immolation Arrow (same mechanic as Freezing Arrow, but with Immolation Trap) as a placeholder until Trap Launcher is finished. Then replace Immolation Arrow with the Trap Launcher. Then make sure Explosive Shot refreshes Immolation Trap.

Doing this will make the tree overall very nice and well synergized. All that would need to be done afterwards would be to adjust the coefficients in order to output the correct amount of damage.

Im glad these are the PTRs. Always fun to see how things start and how they actually turn out. Heres to hoping we dont repeat the Overbuff/Nerf of BM from patch 3.09

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Q u o t e:
In my opinion, take out Black Arrow and replace it with Immolation Arrow (same mechanic as Freezing Arrow, but with Immolation Trap) as a placeholder until Trap Launcher is finished. Then replace Immolation Arrow with the Trap Launcher. Then make sure Explosive Shot refreshes Immolation Trap.

Doing this will make the tree overall very nice and well synergized. All that would need to be done afterwards would be to adjust the coefficients in order to output the correct amount of damage.

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This is really the best solution until Trap Launcher is fixed. Any talent affected by Black Arrow should be replaced with Immo trap.

make the proc rate from frost trap/ freeze trap / freeze arrow 3-7-10% proc rate also and LnL will be much closer to balanced from a pvp standpoint.

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Q u o t e:
make the proc rate from frost trap/ freeze trap / freeze arrow 3-7-10% proc rate also and LnL will be much closer to balanced from a pvp standpoint.

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lol horrible troll

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Q u o t e:
make the proc rate from frost trap/ freeze trap / freeze arrow 3-7-10% proc rate also and LnL will be much closer to balanced from a pvp standpoint.

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Lol.

No.

That would defeat the purpose of the ability.

i am quite serious.

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Q u o t e:

The tech for ranged traps is already available (Freezing Arrow)

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Not true. Freezing Arrow works specifically as a Freezing Trap replacement that needs a second click to target it. The tech that is missing is a buff (conferred by casting Throw Trap) that makes the next normal, non-throwable trap you cast turn into a ranged attack at your current (hostile) target. That's a non-trivial exercise.

The other option, of course, is to give us a new spell for each 'throwable' version of our traps... but I don't think anyone seriously believes that hunters need half a dozen more spells to put on our action bars.

As for LnL procs, if it wasn't clear before, it's certainly clear now that Blizzard doesn't want 100% reliable LnL procs happening with ranged abilities... however, with BA and traps sharing a cooldown, I expect to see the relevant proc chances resulting in something close to a 30-second proc frequency.

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Q u o t e:
You won't be trapping raid bosses to get LnL procs, even if they are immune to the effects. You probably won't be trap dancing much at all in PvE. You should really use Black Arrow for that purpose.

If the proc rate ends up being too low, that is certainly something we are willing to adjust.

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Id like to see the proc rate increased on Black Arrow because as it is now Serpent Sting LnL procs are not common (at least for me). An ability that already has an internal 30 sec cd should not have a low 6% proc rate. It may have been changed but when I played my lock I dont remember there being a 30 sec cd on nightfall.

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Q u o t e:
You won't be trapping raid bosses to get LnL procs, even if they are immune to the effects. You probably won't be trap dancing much at all in PvE. You should really use Black Arrow for that purpose.

If the proc rate ends up being too low, that is certainly something we are willing to adjust.

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But what's the idea behind putting it on BA & Immo ticks rather than when BA is shot and Immo pops?

Why don't you simply allow BA and all traps to have a 100% chance to proc LnL, then call it a day ?

how would it defeat the purpose of the ability?

it would still proc.

just not instantly upon placing a frost trap down on the bridge in BeA for example in a 3's match where it cant really be avoided.

Thanks for the updates Ghost. On the subject of PvE LnL, the concern I have is with the reduced up-time of Black Arrow. Currently, we've got 10% LnL proc chance on Serpent Sting, but if it's still 10% on BA ticks but we only get 50% up-time, we are looking at a lot fewer LnL procs. That is, unless you change the proc percentage chance, which you said you are open to, so that's cool.

However, there may still be an issue with the internal CD of LnL. If we put BA up and LnL procs on the last tick, 15s into the BA CD. Then putting up BA again right as it comes off CD would mean we'd not be able to proc LnL with that second BA. Unless, the internal CD of LnL has been removed.

Can you clarify if the 30s CD on LnL procs has been removed or changed?

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Q u o t e:
i am quite serious.

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Of course you are. It's very cute.