World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Nerfs and Buffs 101

Sapatu

The Forgotten Coast

0. Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 12:24:24 PM PST

Ok, for those that have played this game before even the expansion:

Blizzard is a business. That is providing a good and service "wow".

I originally started playing this game before the BC expansion. I decided to roll a pally, cause I liked the overall abilities that it had. I was even a *gasp* ret pally. This was when they were laughable at best.

Long story short, I rolled a hunter, druid, and a rogue to 70 as well. Many nerfs and buffs came with each character many times.

When one got buffed and was op at that moment, I played that character the most. It just really came down to who was the "flavor of the month"

Now going back to Blizzard being a business. They understand that once you have done just about all you can do with a character, you really just don't have alot to do. Yeah, run some arenas, or bg's. Or maybe the same ole, same ole instances. But eventually this becomes very boring with the same character.

Blizzard adjusts for this boredom by buffing and nerfing classes. If you reroll other characters, you will continue to play the game. If you continue to play the game, you continue to pay your $15 per month.

So no need to question buffs and nerfs. Its all business. Every 6 months or so, there is always going to be op classes (dk's, pallys, and hunters atm).

Just remember this, 6 months ago, pallys and hunters were laughable... while the QQing classes (rogues, mages, and warlocks) were op at that time.

GREAT BUSINESS PLAN BLIZZARD =)

[ Post edited by Sapatu ]

Loudnoises

< Civilian >

Bonechewer

2. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 12:42:54 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Your class is #2 in the 2s and 3s bracket. They have gross arena representation when you look at their overall class population at 80.

Seriously the numbers just do no agree that rogues are underpowered. The numbers show your class still needs adjusting, and as long as your arena representation stays insanely high with no counter buffs to the classes you keep down, not much is going to change.

The only reason you are not #1 in 2s and 3s is because Holy Paladins are insanely overpowered currently.

How the hell does that have the slightest thing to do with what he posted?

ASCII picture of a road sign intended to portray the explicit illegality of a particular type of turn.

Xzilend

< Ehrenguard >

Hellscream

3. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 12:44:38 PM PST

Deathknight in the 1700s folks, nothing to see here.

Alabastrix

Moon Guard

4. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 12:46:16 PM PST

that's nice

Sapatu

The Forgotten Coast

6. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 01:11:54 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Your class is #2 in the 2s and 3s bracket. They have gross arena representation when you look at their overall class population at 80.

Seriously the numbers just do no agree that rogues are underpowered. The numbers show your class still needs adjusting, and as long as your arena representation stays insanely high with no counter buffs to the classes you keep down, not much is going to change.

The only reason you are not #1 in 2s and 3s is because Holy Paladins are insanely overpowered currently.

Um, we can go back and forth all day on representation and all that. Fact is pally/dk account for over 30% of the top 100 in 2v2. Scroll all the way down, and you see that rogue/mage represent 4%.

But that is an argument for another day.

My argument is classes get nerfs and buffs because it keeps players rolling other classes.

It makes perfect business sense.

Fujitasix

< Cataclysm >

Gurubashi

7. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 01:18:44 PM PST

Q u o t e:

How the hell does that have the slightest thing to do with what he posted?

You can't post anything on a rogue avatar and expect people to be polite, or in his case even rational. :P

I honestly used to think that was their objective, to keep the rerollers grinding away and the cash coming in, but how many people really get tired of being at the top? If the same 3 classes were highly represented in arena and didn't change, few people would stop playing them. They'd just log on to their "arena character".

Prime your tear ducts and stay hydrated - the fun is just getting started.

Fotm

Misha

8. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 01:19:44 PM PST

Q u o t e:
When one got buffed and was op at that moment, I played that character the most. It just really came down to who was the "flavor of the month"

oh hai

Rhisi

< Steady Progress >

Coilfang

9. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 01:37:26 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Just remember this, 6 months ago, pallys and hunters were laughable... while the QQing classes (rogues, mages, and warlocks) were op at that time.

GREAT BUSINESS PLAN BLIZZARD =)

Q u o t e:
mages,)

nope, not then.. haven't been overpowered since Pyro->PoM/Pyro kills (lvl 60).

Druids/Warriors/Rogues/Warlocks/Priests were doin it hard in 70 land..

Salinger

Cenarion Circle

10. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 01:44:58 PM PST

Eh, wish I could disagree, but it's either this corporate greed stuff or utter incompetence. There is no third option for why pvp is so horribly imbalanced.

Well, there's the whole "10 classes, 30 specs, hundreds of abilities combining in thousands of ways... player skill, gear, latency, and rng... duels vs bgs vs 2v2 vs 3v3 vs 5v5... why don't you try to balance this mess, jackass?" excuse. But that one just rings hollow.

Damnit, I just defended Blizzard. Wtf is wrong with me today.

Sapatu

The Forgotten Coast

11. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 01:52:55 PM PST

I think another problem may be Blizzard doing away with the rock/paper/scissors idea.

The only way to balance all the classes against ALL OTHER CLASSES, would be to make all the classes exactly the same. The same abilities, armor, cc, etc etc. This just isn't the way the story goes in wow, so I am not suggesting doing this by any means.

But rock/paper/scissors worked very well up until the Wotlk. Now there are the rocks, and the papers. Scissors disappeared though. Hence, there went the class balance.

Salinger

Cenarion Circle

12. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 02:25:25 PM PST

Couldn't agree more about rock/paper/scissors. That's actually a time-tested and extremely viable design philosophy for competitive gaming, especially if the name of the game is supposedly team play.

With Wrath, they gave some classes fantastic new tools for handling their counters (mage armor vs warlocks, dismantle vs warriors) only to leave others in similar situations completely out in the cold (warlocks got nothing for rogues, warriors got nothing for mages).

You could say that they've simply half-assed the design in general. They need to commit to rockpaperscissors or do away with it completely instead of removing half of the hard counters and leaving the rest intact.

Ñiñjá

< Dragon Slayer >

Rexxar

13. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 02:28:35 PM PST

this seems to be borderline bannable, or even over the line so...

in before ban?

Q u o t e:
This is a $%^$$%^ travesty. The game can never have too many crabs.

-GC

Sapatu

The Forgotten Coast

14. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 03:55:34 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Couldn't agree more about rock/paper/scissors. That's actually a time-tested and extremely viable design philosophy for competitive gaming, especially if the name of the game is supposedly team play.

With Wrath, they gave some classes fantastic new tools for handling their counters (mage armor vs warlocks, dismantle vs warriors) only to leave others in similar situations completely out in the cold (warlocks got nothing for rogues, warriors got nothing for mages).

You could say that they've simply half-assed the design in general. They need to commit to rockpaperscissors or do away with it completely instead of removing half of the hard counters and leaving the rest intact.

I just wish dismantle worked half the time against warriors =/

But, ur right... rock/paper/scissors is a very good way to design a game, and I really don't know why blizzard is swaying away from it.

Lynxelle

< Endless Fury >

Nagrand

15. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 06:19:00 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Just remember this, 6 months ago, pallys and hunters were laughable... while the QQing classes (rogues, mages, and warlocks) were op at that time.

GREAT BUSINESS PLAN BLIZZARD =)

LOL. Mages have never been OP in the scope of arena.

Season 1 they went ok...

Season 2 they went ok combined with a HARP rogue,

Season 3 they were very underpowered....

Season 4 they were mildly underpowered,

Season 5 they were middle of the road, copped a whole lot of arcane QQ that got them nerfs even though they were far from OP, and are now one of the lowest (if not THE lowest) represented classes in 2s arenas.....

I fail to see where mages were ever OP there.

"Only the rogue can hope to approach the massive amount of damage the mage can deal out, and even then, the rogue must get to within melee range to do so." - WoW game manual

Wootah

< Archaeus >

Jubei'Thos

16. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 06:29:31 PM PST

Actually I think Blizzard does make their decisions in order to keep us around. I put it down to a lack of confidence from them in their product more than a cunning busiess plan.

1. Buff prot and healing spec dps to be level with all specs of dps. It's logical and amusing.
2. I've seen better maps in a game of Atari combat than in Arena.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

17. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 11:07:53 PM PST

Q u o t e:
this seems to be borderline bannable, or even over the line so...

I don't think it is ban worthy. The OP is not being particularly insulting with his or her thesis. It just so happens to be wrong.

Even as quick as leveling has become, it is still a commitment to get a character to max level and fully geared. We feel like we owe it to players who make that commitment to be competitive without bad numbers alone holding them back (within reason of course). If your class is gimped, your only choice is to reroll. While that may be a good cure for boredom, it's also a pretty heavy price for us to ask you to pay.

We aren't constantly tweaking the numbers just to keep you on your toes. Believe me, if we ever thought we had truly nailed a class, we would call it done and stop messing with buffs and nerfs (at least until the level cap is increased). But we are very critical of our own designs, so we like to keep tinkering with all the classes.

Although WoW is a gigantic game, some players are just going to voraciously devour whatever content we can throw at them. There are certainly a lot of different ways to play the game that you can experiment with if you do get bored. I would suggest things like trade skills, achievements or completing all of the quests you might have skipped. Collect some offspec gear and try a different role (in PvP or PvE). Rerolling can also be a lot of fun. If you're just burned out, it's also not the worst thing in the world to try out some other games -- the past couple of years has been great for them. Just check back in with WoW every now and then. :)

Tarean

< Limited Edition >

Draka

18. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 11:09:19 PM PST

I disagree with the OP that this is what Blizzard intends. At least I pray they do not purposely shift the balance of power to keep us interested.

The achievement system and PvP are great ways to keep players invested. I just wish PvP wasn't as borked as it is now, but I highly doubt they would keep warlocks weak so they would re-roll deathknights and play more.

They get their 15$ a month regardless of what we play.

[ Post edited by Tarean ]

"Just imagine, next patch this won't be a problem. We'll all be bi-specsual." -- Patch 3.1

“The devil tempts all other men, but idle men tempt the devil”

Icamp

Dreadmaul

19. Re: Nerfs and Buffs 101 02/22/2009 11:13:54 PM PST

Q u o t e:

I don't think it is ban worthy. The OP is not being particularly insulting with his or her thesis. It just so happens to be wrong.

Even as quick as leveling has become, it is still a commitment to get a character to max level and fully geared. We feel like we owe it to players who make that commitment to be competitive without bad numbers alone holding them back (within reason of course). If your class is gimped, your only choice is to reroll. While that may be a good cure for boredom, it's also a pretty heavy price for us to ask you to pay.

We aren't constantly tweaking the numbers just to keep you on your toes. Believe me, if we ever thought we had truly nailed a class, we would call it done and stop messing with buffs and nerfs (at least until the level cap is increased). But we are very critical of our own designs, so we like to keep tinkering with all the classes.

Although WoW is a gigantic game, some players are just going to voraciously devour whatever content we can throw at them. There are certainly a lot of different ways to play the game that you can experiment with if you do get bored. I would suggest things like trade skills, achievements or completing all of the quests you might have skipped. Collect some offspec gear and try a different role (in PvP or PvE). Rerolling can also be a lot of fun. If you're just burned out, it's also not the worst thing in the world to try out some other games -- the past couple of years has been great for them. Just check back in with WoW every now and then. :)

I gotta admit , ive at times wondered the same thing as the op.

Blizzard will probably never admit it but i know once apon a time they intentionally made some specs and classes weaker. Tigole used to run one of the top guilds in ever quest and would intentionally crash servers to protest ingame things. One such thing was that the Paladin class in that game could tank as well as the Warrior class.

When you have someone like that at the reins of the game , and you see during vanilla wow that paladins , druids were subpar tanks to warriors. It makes me think that not taking action has more to do with one of the lead designers game philosophy more than marketing tricks.

I am your GoD

Forum > CLASS ROLES > DAMAGE DEALING