Why was the nerf to spirit so minuscule?? the fsr regen was very small, and in harder encounters would probably account for a tiny percent of overall regen. I'm not QQing about the DP nerf. I think it was good. I just don't understand why the spirit nerf is so small. priests and druids will still never have to worry about mana, especially when they get even more int and spirit in t8 gear.

Yeah, by nerfing the 5SR regen they're essentially removing a small, but fun and skill-based source of regen from the game.

And of course they're leaving replenish untouched, since it's a huge, boring, 0-skill source of regen.

Where can I find these numbers?

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Q u o t e:
Why was the nerf to spirit so minuscule?? the fsr regen was very small, and in harder encounters would probably account for a tiny percent of overall regen.

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Well, given the fact they haven't nerfed it yet, nor have they told us what the numbers are going to be, I'm not sure you can call it minuscule (yet).

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Q u o t e:
I just don't understand why the spirit nerf is so small. priests and druids will still never have to worry about mana, especially when they get even more int and spirit in t8 gear.

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Uhm, be honest. You're probably going to regain easy infinite mana in T8, too. And I'm willing to bet that shamans will suddenly start suffering from this "problem", too. If not in T8, then it will hit during early T9 at this rate. I'm fully expecting even some DPS stop speccing into mana cost reduction or mana return talents in the near future if things continue the way they are.

Now, I do believe that Blizzard understands this, but the current nerfs are little more than simple band-aid solutions. They will make it a bit harder to get infinite mana without hurting the game too much at lower gear levels. Mana regen will remain broken until a system is put in place so that mana regen no longer provides accelerating returns for each point of MP5 you gain. This is a tough problem to solve in a fair way. There are plenty of solutions that have been proposed on the forums, but most are not simple to implement, or have their own share of problems.

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Q u o t e:
Why was the nerf to spirit so minuscule?? the fsr regen was very small, and in harder encounters would probably account for a tiny percent of overall regen. I'm not QQing about the DP nerf. I think it was good. I just don't understand why the spirit nerf is so small. priests and druids will still never have to worry about mana, especially when they get even more int and spirit in t8 gear.

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If you only are thinking about raiding, you are correct. ooFSR regen is a small fraction of our total regen and nerfing it will have minimal impact. Perhaps we will have to swap one piece of gear or so to make up for the lost mana.

But this change, as it is currently written, will hammer us in PvP (especially battlegrounds), soloing, and raid trash. There, we DO benefit heavily from ooFSR regen.

So somehow, Blizzard seems to be getting it backwards. This "solution" doesn't fix the problem they are aiming at, yet manages to make other problems even worse. I am worried that bg's and Wintergrasp will simply be unplayable for druid or priest healers if this change goes through.

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Q u o t e:
Well, given the fact they haven't nerfed it yet, nor have they told us what the numbers are going to be, I'm not sure you can call it minuscule (yet).

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What they have said is that with the re-balancing of in-combat regen talents, it will stay roughly the same. Now they might not end up doing this, but the best information we have is that they will be.

The only way the regen nerfs make any sense is if Replenishment is someone's pet feature, and they're completely unwilling to nerf it. As it stands, they're nerfing everything else around it, instead of solving the actual thing they set out to solve.

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Q u o t e:
What they have said is that with the re-balancing of in-combat regen talents, it will stay roughly the same. Now they might not end up doing this, but the best information we have is that they will be.

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Well, that's not completely unreasonable either. If I'm forced to spam something like greater heal with 0 downtime between casts, I can run out of mana fairly rapidly (e.g. Patchwerk, if I cancel none of my heals while casting, I will be OOM by the end of the fight). Most fights do not involve that level of tank damage or have that kind of spell spam requirement (even on patchwerk, it's usually safe to cancel some casts).

I am expecting that they'll decide they need to nerf the FSR regen as well as the OOFSR regen. If stat growth trends continue the way they are, I wouldn't be surprised if priest/druid/shaman FSR regen starts getting to the point where our mana pools are effectively infinite even after this nerf.

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Q u o t e:
Shidare writes...

If you only are thinking about raiding, you are correct. ooFSR regen is a small fraction of our total regen and nerfing it will have minimal impact. Perhaps we will have to swap one piece of gear or so to make up for the lost mana.

But this change, as it is currently written, will hammer us in PvP (especially battlegrounds), soloing, and raid trash. There, we DO benefit heavily from ooFSR regen.

So somehow, Blizzard seems to be getting it backwards. This "solution" doesn't fix the problem they are aiming at, yet manages to make other problems even worse. I am worried that bg's and Wintergrasp will simply be unplayable for druid or priest healers if this change goes through.

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I believe Blizzard is going at it exactly the way they meant to; their PR spin on it is just trying to make it sound like a "general gameplay" fix rather than the actual, real-and-for-true part of the game (PVP) that all changes are now balanced for.

The relevant question is...which developer's team exactly got spanked by a rogue-druid-priest in 3v3/Paladin-Priest duo in battlegrounds? Someone with a rogue main sounds awfully pissed....

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Q u o t e:


If you only are thinking about raiding, you are correct. ooFSR regen is a small fraction of our total regen and nerfing it will have minimal impact. Perhaps we will have to swap one piece of gear or so to make up for the lost mana.

But this change, as it is currently written, will hammer us in PvP (especially battlegrounds), soloing, and raid trash. There, we DO benefit heavily from ooFSR regen.

So somehow, Blizzard seems to be getting it backwards. This "solution" doesn't fix the problem they are aiming at, yet manages to make other problems even worse. I am worried that bg's and Wintergrasp will simply be unplayable for druid or priest healers if this change goes through.

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QFT. This won't solve infinite mana on raid bosses, people will just stack Int and let Replenishment do its thing. It scales so well that we'll be right back to where we started.

But soloing? PvP? New healers who just hit 80 and aren't geared? THAT is where this will hurt. New 80s in particular already have it pretty rough as Priests (fresh 80 Priests are dreadful, other classes probably also have major issues already at that point), nerfing those people while doing nothing to someone who has best in slot INT stacked gear really doesn't do anything useful.

I don't think Replenishment is someones pet thing though. They just use Replenishment to balance DPS mana (as in: can't go OOM), and are trying to beat the crap out of everything else to make healers work the same way only with the ability to go OOM.

I fully expect to see this patch note in 3.2, after they realize how badly 3.1 will fail its intended goal:

"Replenishment no longer works on players with more then 20 points in a talent tree named Holy, Restoration, or Discipline."

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Q u o t e:
Out of casting regen can be a significant source of mana, but this is complicated by the fact that it can also be really random due to clearcast procs and the nature of the fight itself. Something like Loatheb can be easier than intended because the fight asks you to pause a lot.

Now I remember the long ago healing strat guides and how clever they can make it sound to try and delay a heal to earn more mana. It sounds cool on paper. But the reality was things like stopcasting macros because in reality you couldn't afford to wait a couple of seconds to see if the heal was needed.

We actually want for healing to be less spammy and more about decisions and coordination. But if we did that sans other changes, everyone would be out of fsr even more and the content would be too easy. Make sense? Making regen more consistent is also the key to making healing more tactical and less monotonous and frenetic.

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Still wondering If I am going to get new gear itemization. Now that Spirit is taking a back seat and my gear is swimming with it.

Not to mention the fact that Innervate works of spirit regen and so I can guess my innervate will become useless as well.

The reason I dont stack Intel is because my regen made a mana pool silly. I guess I need more intel on my gear and MP5 instead of the spirit you stuck druids with.

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Q u o t e:
Making regen more consistent is also the key to making healing more tactical and less monotonous and frenetic

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Btw tell that to the poor healer that gets yelled at when people die because they are trying to be more "tactical" Or they go oom trying to heal.

Thanks for the response!

I agree that it made sense for fsr regen to be nerfed, since the ultimate goal is that actually healers will not be spamming the whole time, and then that form of regen would actually have a big impact.

I'm just wondering though. The changes made so far don't seem to prevent priests and druids from spamming heals the entire fight. So wouldn't it make sense to actually nerf while-casting regen from spirit (and/or int) as well? I trust that blizzard's plans for regen will take shape soon enough. Just wondering why the latest post on regen states that while-casting regen from spirit will overall stay about the same in 3.1. It seems silly because the current while-casting regen for priests and druids is enough to sustain pretty much constant spamming, not to mention with t8 stats!

Anyways I'm glad that blizzard wants to prevent healers from being able to spam mindlessly. I just think that blizzard is being too lenient so far! ;p

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Q u o t e:
Spirit is a great regen stat depending on your class. Many players never get out of the fsr until they overgear the content at which point mana really isn't what is slowing you down. I predict many players won't notice a difference especially on shorter fights like Arenas or trash.

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Yes but isnt it in the longer fights we are all concerned with? That is where the danger of Oom comes and people start to die. I could care less what my regen is like with trash. Its when Im in a boss fight that my regen is important to me.

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Q u o t e:
...I predict many players won't notice a difference especially on shorter fights like Arenas or trash.

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Off topic: That's a problem. Arena fights are short and it really sucks right now. WTB Chess, etc.

On topic: I honestly expect that as content gets harder, healing will become more demanding (Like, you might need more than 2 of them) mana will become a bigger issue. At that point, we probably can see where we are at. I think Ulduar will clear up speculation.

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Q u o t e:
We actually want for healing to be less spammy and more about decisions and coordination. But if we did that sans other changes, everyone would be out of fsr even more and the content would be too easy. Make sense? Making regen more consistent is also the key to making healing more tactical and less monotonous and frenetic.

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Im trying to get my head around how our mana consumption will make healing less monotonous, but okay. Tactical healing is setting up your character to be a healing machine without outside sources. This is why we stack certain stacks and create our own rotations. Now we will have to depend on an outside source for our mana regen. Priests used things like inner focus+trinkets to drop 5sr - this sounds very tactical to me, and was one of those things that broke the monotony of healing. Now they wont even get inner focus and will be staring at their mana bar even more. You're right this does sound more fun!

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Q u o t e:
You're right this does sound more fun!

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It's not the loss of trying to get outside the fsr, it's the gain of having to plan each heal, and not being able to spam mindlessly. To me that does sound more fun.

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Q u o t e:
Well, given the fact they haven't nerfed it yet, nor have they told us what the numbers are going to be, I'm not sure you can call it minuscule (yet).
Uhm, be honest. You're probably going to regain easy infinite mana in T8, too. And I'm willing to bet that shamans will suddenly start suffering from this "problem", too. If not in T8, then it will hit during early T9 at this rate. I'm fully expecting even some DPS stop speccing into mana cost reduction or mana return talents in the near future if things continue the way they are.

Now, I do believe that Blizzard understands this, but the current nerfs are little more than simple band-aid solutions. They will make it a bit harder to get infinite mana without hurting the game too much at lower gear levels. Mana regen will remain broken until a system is put in place so that mana regen no longer provides accelerating returns for each point of MP5 you gain. This is a tough problem to solve in a fair way. There are plenty of solutions that have been proposed on the forums, but most are not simple to implement, or have their own share of problems.

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Unless Intellect and regeneration stats do not increase on new gear tier. If the regeneration stats remain the same through different tier, we will not see our regeneration get out of hand. It would be stable.

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Q u o t e:


It's not the loss of trying to get outside the fsr, it's the gain of having to plan each heal, and not being able to spam mindlessly. To me that does sound more fun.

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Priests already do this. In fact, the out of five second rule nerf will give us less incentive to do this.

The reason I can spam spells now is replenishment. Remove that and mana would be an issue on long fights.