Considering that Blizzard really sucks at itemizing gear properly and Ulduar10 only dropping ilevel 213, seems like that whole raid will be a complete waste of time in 10-man. :(

---

Q u o t e:
Considering that Blizzard really sucks at itemizing gear properly and Ulduar10 only dropping ilevel 213, seems like that whole raid will be a complete waste of time in 10-man. :(

---

ding!

2 options for ilevel 213 gear:

1) content tuned around ilevel 187-200 gear
2) content tuned around ilevel 200-213 gear

which will you choose?

---

Q u o t e:
I think when the devs talked about the whole 10/25 thing. People accepted the fact that the 10 man gear would be one step behind the 25 man gear and it made sense

---

Devs screwed up there, basically.

10 and 25 man should have equal rewards and be tuned appropriately. Safe to say that most guilds/players around at the start of the expansion will finish off the 10 man before the next 10 man comes out. When that happens, they'll look to 25 mans, probably even before then. Certain classes, like ranged DPS or healers, will find it easy to get in on both at the same time. Which means by the time the next 10 man rolls around, there's little incentive.

Dislike Naxx 10 man for similar reasons. Most of its loot is about the same stuff I can get in Heroics. Takes less time, sure, fills in a couple of slots heroics don't, but basically the same level of gear, mostly sideways upgrades. As someone who geared up heavily in heroics while waiting for my guild to catch up a bit, I found the place quite disappointing, as it offered very little that is an upgrade for me. Because I've got little to look forward to from there, I'm looking to 25 mans, and so when the next set of 10 mans comes around, I'll again have nothing to look forward to from them.

Devs need to re-think it. 10 man, 25 man, they should be equally difficult with equal rewards and be about how you like to play.

---

Q u o t e:


If we require Naxx25 gear for Ulduar10 then that just hurts the players who don't run any 25 person instances. It may have more side grades than anything, but I expect players in Naxx25 gear to run Ulduar10 quite often for this gear and to help learn the instance - if anything is an upgrade of any kind, it will likely get run pretty often.



It's always possible that more items will be added, but we have nothing specific planned at this time. We also don't plan to offer any kind of trade up, like Emblems of Heroism for Emblems of Valor, as that would defeat the purpose of a multi-tier badge system.

---

K.







Make em BoA then please.

---

Q u o t e:

Devs need to re-think it. 10 man, 25 man, they should be equally difficult with equal rewards and be about how you like to play.

---

Few people wouldn't bother with 25 man then, because it's easier to get a group of 10. Especially when the xpac first came out, some people were slow to level meaning we ran 10 man naxx for a few weeks (2-3) first. If there was no reason to run 25 man after that then we probably wouldn't have, not because we don't enjoy 25 man (we do), but because we were already fairly geared in 10 man gear when we had enough people to do it.

If you can jump into a 25 man now I don't see why you can't get into one when ulduar is released, meaning you'll get upgrades fine.

If you wanted to stick with 10 man content mostly then why did you jump into a 25 man?

IMO the only way to do the whole 10/25 man thing correctly is to release the content fast enough to keep people happy.

I really do hope that what Bornakk has posted thus far is only the "generalized" truth of the matter.

I for one am perfectly happy with the Hero > Valor > Conquest badge system. I completely expected the upgrade. I do however believe that without an upward conversion from Hero > Valor there will be a decent sized backlash of people not doing heroics. We are already seeing a decline in 5 man participation because it takes very little time to obtain all the badges you need in order to gear a character out. I myself am done with badge gear on 3 level 80's and have purchased several BoA items. If we move to another token tier without an upward conversion, or no new gear on the heroic tier people will be doing UP and CoT:S for mounts and forget the rest other than achievements.

I do hope that the Naxx10 < Naxx25 = Ulduar 10 < Ulduar 25 is not the case at all though. I would rather see a Naxx25 </= Ulduar 10.

In TBC we saw the jump from Tier 4 to Tier 5 raids be such a minimal ilvl upgrade. With the end of T4 (Prince/Gruul/Magtheridon) having ilvl125 gear and SSC/TK gear started at ilvl128. This continued with the Kael/Vash at 138 and the beginning of BT/Hyjal at 141. This was a very minor change and a good one at that. I would really hope we see something extremely similar with Ulduar. With KT/Maly/2D loot being 213 for 10 mans and 226 for 25 mans, if we do not start at 216 and 229 with Ulduar it would be an incredible dissapointment.

There needs to be incentive for people to go to both 10 and 25 man instances beyond the unique trinkets that they possess (please don't make the mistake that was Repelling Charge again.) The raiders that run 25 mans everyweek enjoy doing 10s as well and would like to see something out of them. Even if they are only 3-4 ilvls worth.

Remember that all encounters currently in the game (10 and 25man) except for 3 Drake Sarth are pretty much puggable for gear at this point. The difficulty level is so low that an increase in drop level and challenge in a new instance should be significant. "We" would really like to see an increase that would eliminate alot of the pugging.

---

Q u o t e:
With the latest blue regarding a new wing of Archavon and a new emblem, I couldn't help but notice the lack of a second type of emblem...which suggest to me the following:

Ulduar will drop T7.25 in Ten man and T8 in 25 man.

Are you for real? Separate progression means separate progression. Flame all you will, but people who have chosen the 10 man path should have access to T8.10. New content -> new gear. If this is the direction you're going...I truly hope you reconsider.

---

No, you get upgraded gear 1 level behind current 25 man progression.

---

Q u o t e:


If you have only ever completed Naxx10 and not done Naxx25 at all, I wouldn't expect you to be jumping straight to Ulduar25. Yes, there is a gap in there, but you can overcome this with Naxx25 now or Ulduar10 in the future if you are interested in getting into Ulduar25.

---

Thank you.

Not sure why its so hard for these people to understand.

---

Q u o t e:


We currently have it setup so greater difficulty (whether it's via the encounter or coordination, call it what you want) gets a greater reward and we like how it's working so far.

---

I'm not seeing greater difficulty in naxx25 then the 10 man version. Quite the opposite actually.

Not to mention that the 25 man is just as puggable as the 10 man, I wouldn't exactly be giving out points for co-ordination either.

I sincerely hope you get it right in ulduar

---

Q u o t e:


I'm not seeing greater difficulty in naxx25 then the 10 man version. Quite the opposite actually.

---

You will never convince Blizzard raid developers of this. Ever. They learned their chops in EQ and will never set aside the notion that largest group = hardest content = most deserving of reward. Today's announcements are the ugly face behind the supposedly parallel raid schemes in WotLK: The old EQ mindset is alive and well in WotLK.

Will heroics still drop the same old kind of emblem, and if so will there be any new gear to buy with them? I've started to collect offspec gear now, but that will be finished within a few months.

So if we have been farming naxx 25 there will be no reason to do uldar 10? That kinda sucks and likewise Naxx 25/OS/Malygos we will also have no reason at all to go back there either. SO raiding guilds when patch 3.1 comes out will only have 1 new instance to bother with, that kinda sucks.

---

Q u o t e:
So if we have been farming naxx 25 there will be no reason to do uldar 10? That kinda sucks and likewise Naxx 25/OS/Malygos we will also have no reason at all to go back there either. SO raiding guilds when patch 3.1 comes out will only have 1 new instance to bother with, that kinda sucks.

---

Kinda means you won't get burnt out on ulduar so fast.

---

Q u o t e:


We currently have it setup so greater difficulty (whether it's via the encounter or coordination, call it what you want) gets a greater reward and we like how it's working so far.

---

Yes but are those 'Hard' encounters tuned for folks in appropriate level gear? Whats the point of having hard mode encounters in 10 man if you require 25 man gear to do it.

---

Q u o t e:
So if we have been farming naxx 25 there will be no reason to do uldar 10? That kinda sucks and likewise Naxx 25/OS/Malygos we will also have no reason at all to go back there either. SO raiding guilds when patch 3.1 comes out will only have 1 new instance to bother with, that kinda sucks.

---

You'll do Ulduar 10 to get the achievements, which will be ridiculously easy since they have to balance the instance against ilev 200 and you're in ilev 213-226 already. Then you can say, "damn, that 10-man stuff is super easy", grab your shards, and head on over to Ulduar 25.

I'm sure they'll come out with some nice 40-Abyss Shard enchants, and then you'll appreciate the extra easy shard options.

I thought it was accepted that Sartharion with 3 Drakes up on 10 man was the hardest encounter in the game, but the rewards for it are less than the 25 man version, which is an easier encounter. That doesn't seem to be working as intended.