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Q u o t e:
prep and premed should switch places in the sub tree too

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Stop asking for this, all this does is make a rogue's initial burst even more powerful. It's a stupid suggestion.

See, I told you guys.

inb4 !!@@storm

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Q u o t e:
An Overkill change would have required more redesign of the talents and abilities than we were willing to make for a small patch like this. We're also unconvinced it would have fixed the problem alone.

Basically, it might have helped stealth burst, but wouldn't have helped with unstealthed burst, which was still too high in our opinion. Two Mutilates and a Cold Blood Eviscerate within one Kidney Shot duration is a ton of damage, and is possible with unglyphed Vigor and no Overkill. Add a partner or an interrupt or whatever and it can mean death for most players in very few GCDs.

Overkill and glyphed Vigor are something we will probably look at for 3.1, depending on how the current changes shake out.

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Good man, keep at it.

This is good if you think about it. It *MAY* be tough times for rogues for a little bit, but just think they are in the process of fixing your pvp burst so they can fix your pve dmg.

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Q u o t e:


So we're being nerfed even more in 3.1 is what I got from that.

And the two mutilates and Cold Blood Eviscerate was too much but the Obliterates and Rune Strikes are fine? This is most of our issue with this.

Why is a very fragile class like a rogue who's a pure dps class mind you not allowed to have damage like this while Retribution paladins and Death Knights burst just as well AND are massively more survivable? Its an incredible failure of logic.

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Hopefully DK burst will be addressed. Because in its current form its way to high.

What makes rogue's burst too much in PvP is low-hanging "Dirty Deeds" talent. When combined with Cold Blood it gives rogue's equivalent of Execute.

Mutilate nerf had a side effect of turning rogues into WotLK equivalent of 3 minute mages, if they don't kill someone in a drop, they never get to kill.

GC, ask yourself - what makes 100 to 0 from a rogue possible. Yes, mutilate does too much damage, but why? Rogue's don't pull excessive damage by *just* walking up to someone and spamming mutilate, there are other factors in play.

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Q u o t e:
An Overkill change would have required more redesign of the talents and abilities than we were willing to make for a small patch like this. We're also unconvinced it would have fixed the problem alone.

Basically, it might have helped stealth burst, but wouldn't have helped with unstealthed burst, which was still too high in our opinion. Two Mutilates and a Cold Blood Eviscerate within one Kidney Shot duration is a ton of damage, and is possible with unglyphed Vigor and no Overkill. Add a partner or an interrupt or whatever and it can mean death for most players in very few GCDs.

Overkill and glyphed Vigor are something we will probably look at for 3.1, depending on how the current changes shake out.

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Why is sub not being looked into or is it, because as it is right now only pvp spec you can go is mutilate, which isn't that great in a sense right now with the new nerfs.

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Q u o t e:
An Overkill change would have required more redesign of the talents and abilities than we were willing to make for a small patch like this. We're also unconvinced it would have fixed the problem alone.

Basically, it might have helped stealth burst, but wouldn't have helped with unstealthed burst, which was still too high in our opinion. Two Mutilates and a Cold Blood Eviscerate within one Kidney Shot duration is a ton of damage, and is possible with unglyphed Vigor and no Overkill. Add a partner or an interrupt or whatever and it can mean death for most players in very few GCDs.

Overkill and glyphed Vigor are something we will probably look at for 3.1, depending on how the current changes shake out.

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This is becuase Rogues have to Much energy in a MUT PvP spec with 4pc. 130 energy is To much.

A rogoues energy is there to limit there burst much like how a War Rage regulates there. With 130 energy though they really don't have to worry about energy.

Like a said Rogues with 130 energy is Like Ret paladins when JotW restored 33% of there mana on judge cast. Paladins could freely spam all of their spell even Heal spells and Never worry about there mana this lead to sustainable high Burst.

This is what rogues are the 2pc needs to be changed and glyph of vigor gone. Vigor has always been there and hasn't caused in problems but teamed up with the glyph and 4pc and you have problems.

This would nerf Both without having to put such a taxing nerf to mutilate that could possibly cause scaling problems in the future.

110 energy is fine 130 is to much.

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Q u o t e:
An Overkill change would have required more redesign of the talents and abilities than we were willing to make for a small patch like this. We're also unconvinced it would have fixed the problem alone.

Basically, it might have helped stealth burst, but wouldn't have helped with unstealthed burst, which was still too high in our opinion. Two Mutilates and a Cold Blood Eviscerate within one Kidney Shot duration is a ton of damage, and is possible with unglyphed Vigor and no Overkill. Add a partner or an interrupt or whatever and it can mean death for most players in very few GCDs.

Overkill and glyphed Vigor are something we will probably look at for 3.1, depending on how the current changes shake out.

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What, do you honestly think Rogue unstealthed burst was 'too high', so much that we needed immediate attention? There are many other classes that can easily output much more damage in the same time frame, I'd rather get one, well-thought out nerf than a rushed, #%%#ty nerf that didn't even fix rogue burst (see: other thread about this).

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Q u o t e:
They knew it was an option. The best answer you're going to get is something along the lines of "blah blah blah design blah blah blah not too concerned."

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Srsly, you hit that one right on the head...