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Q u o t e:

• Regeneration while not casting (outside of the “five second rule”) will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.

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This will negatively impact questing, levelling, grinding, basically any time we're going between mobs. Is there any word on what is being looked at to deal with the increased downtime this change will cause?

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Q u o t e:

[ul]

Regeneration while not casting (outside of the “five second rule”) will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.

To make this change, we are reducing mana regeneration granted by Spirit across the board. However we are also boosting the effects of talents such as Meditation that increase regeneration while casting. The net result should be that your regeneration while casting will stay about the same, but your not-casting regeneration will be reduced. This change will have little impact on dps casters, since they are basically always casting.

The specific talents and abilities being boosted are: Arcane Meditation, Improved Spirit Tap, Intensity, Mage Armor, Meditation, Pyromaniac and Spirit Tap. Yes this makes these “mandatory” talents even more mandatory, if such a thing is possible.

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Is it possible to get some clarification about Innervate? it is one of the few tools left to be based on the spirit regeneration formula and these changes seem to invoke a sense of dread because whatever % you change the formula to be will directly nerf Innervate by the same value.

If the ability is too strong right now (funny because our worth of the spirit stat is roughly 40-50% based around Innervate boosting) then it would be nice to be told so we don't have to wonder if it was ignored by mistake or intentionally weakened.
We did have to invest a lot of "regeneration stats" in order to get it to be at the level it is today which seems to be in accord with the mentality of "don't ignore mana" we have been told to be at and if Innervate was too strong then the glyph for it is kind of odd too.

I think it was being referred to as it currently stands, where you press a button and you gain tons of mana back quickly, instead of relying on mp5 or channeling. Set it and forget it type of things. I don't believe it was meant to be as it "becomes" but to what it is currently.

Wait, is this different from the one you posted last week or something?

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Q u o t e:
]Since paladins rely less on Spirit as a mana-regeneration stat, we have to address them in other ways. We don’t want to change Illumination or Replenishment. However, we are going to increase the healing penalty on Divine Plea from 20% to 50%. Divine Plea was originally intended to help Protection and Retribution paladins stay full on mana. It should be a decision for Holy paladins, not something that is automatically used every cooldown.

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So nice of you to introduce this in 3.0.9 for paladins. Makes me so happy to pay 100g to raid each week to respec to a healadin because, for some odd reason, there aren't enough healers. I'm mainly a tankadin and I am really, really, really unhappy about this going in in 3.0.9 with my less than 200 or so mp5 in purple ilevel 200 gear. Thanks. I'm looking forward to tossing out 5k holy light heals during my only mana regen move for 15 sec on Patchwerk.

It is also particularly nice that the other mana nerfs to other healer will be extensively tested in raid situations by guilds that feel the need to pre-run Uldar. I'm a SW tester in RL, and I am shaking my head at you guys right now.

Paladins get to live with this for, what, 1.5 - 2 mos before other healers? Makes me feel special, as in short-bus special.

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Q u o t e:

We balance around the assumption that even 10-player groups have someone offering Replenishment. To make this even easier on players we are likely to offer this ability to additional classes, as well as make sure that existing sources of Replenishment are more equitable.

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I'm afraid you guys will need to add more classes / spec with a replenishment option. So far, there are 5 specs out of 30 able to do it.

SV Hunters.
Frost Mages.
Retribution Paladins.
Shadow Priest.
Warlocks (not sure which spec can actually do it).

Considering all specs will be more raid viable in the incoming 3.1 patch (such as Frost Mage, which is just nowhere on par to Fire or Arcane in raids), this is ridiculously low. All replenisher may be from a different class, this is still only 5/10 classes able to do it. And many, many times, you will need to have to step someone out in order to bring a replenisher (who may have to respec themself).

If you want to make replenishment the mana regen condition to successful raids, to be a mendatory ability that you have to bring, to balance the game (10 & 25 man raids) around it, then give it to way more specs / classes. And since replenishment is mainly / only for healers, why not give us the ability to do it?

My only issue with the DP change is that it does nothing to change actual mana regeneration. Nerfing the mana received would have been good, however all this change means is that Paladins will have to coordinate with other healers for support in tank healing when they pop DP. Otherwise Paladins will still be able to keep up the mana in order to spam HL (instead of a mix of the "not-enough" FoL and HL to be concerned about mana). Smart paladins will just use other ways to counter this change when needed, such as Avenging Wrath, or any spell power trinkets and such to keep their throughput to a solid level to keep the tank from being in danger.

My only concern would be what would happen if a paladin needed to pop DP for necessary mana, but the tank starts taking spike damage, the paladin has to make the choice between having enough mana to cast HL at 50% throughput and hope the tank can manage, or not having enough mana and casting HL at normal throughput. A lot of people have said that it would reduce overhealing, which is a concern, but most of the overhealing comes from Beacon heals, JoL ticks, and then HL casts which is necessary to the tank healing style. You can't be reactive while healing the tank, you have to be proactive.

Haha this isn't coherent at all D: My main point is that while it is an intended nerf to mana regen, the actual mana received is not being changed, and all smart paladins have to do is coordinate with other healers in raids for support healing and mana has a possibility to be scarce in 5-mans and even 10-mans where the paladin can't operate at 50% efficiency on the tank. Overall I'm fine with it and I will adapt to the change, but if the intended target is mana regen (especially in raids) then the nerf should have been done in a smarter way.

i'm going to have to see how this "fix / nerf" goes. If i can still heal then no problem, but if i find myself struggling for mana this will not be good.

But in any case I still believe blizzard is going after the wrong people here.

making healing hard =/= making fights harder

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Q u o t e:
As we have suggested, we have become concerned that mana regeneration is currently too powerful, especially for healers. We want players to have to keep an eye on mana. We don’t want you to go out of mana every fight, but running out of mana should be a very real risk for sloppy playing or attempting content that you aren’t yet ready for. When mana regeneration is trivial then certain parts of the game break down – classes that offer Replenishment are devalued, stats that offer mana regeneration are devalued, and spells that are efficient are neglected in preference to spells with high throughput.

Here are a list of changes you are likely to see in 3.1. They will be available to try out on the PTR. Mana regeneration is somewhat technical, so please bear with us.

• Regeneration while not casting (outside of the “five second rule”) will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.
  
  
• To make this change, we are reducing mana regeneration granted by Spirit across the board. However we are also boosting the effects of talents such as Meditation that increase regeneration while casting. The net result should be that your regeneration while casting will stay about the same, but your not-casting regeneration will be reduced. This change will have little impact on dps casters, since they are basically always casting.
  
  
• The specific talents and abilities being boosted are: Arcane Meditation, Improved Spirit Tap, Intensity, Mage Armor, Meditation, Pyromaniac and Spirit Tap. Yes this makes these “mandatory” talents even more mandatory, if such a thing is possible.
  
  
• Since paladins rely less on Spirit as a mana-regeneration stat, we have to address them in other ways. We don’t want to change Illumination or Replenishment. However, we are going to increase the healing penalty on Divine Plea from 20% to 50%. Divine Plea was originally intended to help Protection and Retribution paladins stay full on mana. It should be a decision for Holy paladins, not something that is automatically used every cooldown.
  
  
• In addition, we are also changing the way Spiritual Attunement works. In situations with a large amount of outgoing raid damage, as well as in PvP, this passive ability was responsible for more mana regeneration than we would like. We want to keep the necessary benefit it grants to tanking Protection paladins, while making it less powerful for Holy paladins in PvP or raid encounters with a lot of group damage.
  
  
• We are also taking a close look at clearcasting procs themselves. One likely outcome is to change them to an Innervate-like surge of mana so that the net benefit is the same, but healers won’t shift to out-of-casting regeneration so often.
  
  
• We balance around the assumption that even 10-player groups have someone offering Replenishment. To make this even easier on players we are likely to offer this ability to additional classes, as well as make sure that existing sources of Replenishment are more equitable.
  
  
• These changes are ultimately being done to bring the different healing classes more in line with each other as well as to give the encounter team more leeway when designing encounters, who can balance with these new mana regeneration numbers in mind. In a world with infinite healer mana, the only way to challenge healers is with increasingly insane amount of raid damage, so that global cooldowns become the limiting factor since mana fails to be. An example is the Eredar Twins in late Sunwell. We weren’t necessarily happy with that model, and this change hopefully allows us to move towards giving healing a more deliberate and thoughtful pace rather than frenetic spam.

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Two things spring to mind:


1) Wasn't this posted already?

2) What developer thought it best to nerf arguably the worst stat currently in the game in spirit? I'm seriously curious about this. As a priest, I already learned it far superior to stack INT because of the absurd amount of mp5 replenishment gives, and yet the only change to this is to give it to MORE classes? Why, so we can suffer when we're by ourselves? I really don't get the developer line of thinking here.

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Q u o t e:


This will negatively impact questing, levelling, grinding, basically any time we're going between mobs. Is there any word on what is being looked at to deal with the increased downtime this change will cause?

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Combined with the pathetic state of water or perhaps the huge increase in mana pools, soloing as a caster is getting to be very very frustrating now. Please tell me something is being done about this,.

Dear Blizzard,

I can understand nerfing OOFSR regen (trying not to push buttons is a lousy game mechanic), but please consider a way to buff OOC regen.

The spirit nerf might help tuning your boss fights, but it's also going to make everything else take longer for us to sit after every action.

We're already up to 2 mana biscuits to refill our mana bar and I've got a DK tank who wants to chain pull. I don't want to travel through Ulduar like a dog scooting his ass across the carpet.

Battlegrounds & Wintergrasp are already miserable for healers. While melee get to keep running and killing stuff, I'm left behind and hiding under a bush eating mage hot pockets.

Please let me stand up and be EPIC.... I'm sick of getting dust on my skirt.

Love,
Dunia

Basically it seems they are removing one thing I didn't like about holy healing in boss fights, and in return they are boosting the aggravation I get during the the other 95% of my time on my priest.

IMO, they should remove the FSR, and just do in-combat vs. out-of-combat for mana regen. That's how health regen already works. People are still going to try to dance the FSR, even if the benefit is minimal.

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Q u o t e:
1) Wasn't this posted already?

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http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14990443775&pageNo=1&sid=1#3

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Q u o t e:
That sticky has been created on the Healing forum: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14990472321&sid=1

We're trying to clear some space at the top of this forum.

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Q u o t e:
IMO, they should remove the FSR, and just do in-combat vs. out-of-combat for mana regen. That's how health regen already works. People are still going to try to dance the FSR, even if the benefit is minimal.

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I would love to see this change. Downtime is already aggravating, anything that reduces it would be nice and fair, since DPS rarely has any at all.

I agree with making a distinction between in and out of combat regeneration. It's one thing rework mana regen for boss fights, but try not to kill our solo/questing ability while you're at it.

RIP Arcane Build...RIP...my preist...

How are you going to do it to shamans, spirit is priest and druid, and you are working on pallies seperately what are you going to do to address to much mana regen for shamans. Also will you be upping the amount returned by innervate, as it is based on outside of casting spirit mana regen?

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Q u o t e:
How are you going to do it to shamans, spirit is priest and druid, and you are working on pallies seperately what are you going to do to address to much mana regen for shamans. Also will you be upping the amount returned by innervate, as it is based on outside of casting spirit mana regen?

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Silly Druids. Must you try and pick on Shamans because they didn't get any nerf? Shamans have the lowest mana regen of all healers.

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Q u o t e:
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Since paladins rely less on Spirit as a mana-regeneration stat, we have to address them in other ways. We don’t want to change Illumination or Replenishment. However, we are going to increase the healing penalty on Divine Plea from 20% to 50%. Divine Plea was originally intended to help Protection and Retribution paladins stay full on mana. It should be a decision for Holy paladins, not something that is automatically used every cooldown.

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I think we all agree it should be a chose to use, but not use it at all or dont use it, the 50% reduction is steep- at least for the duration

there are very few fights there there is 15 seconds that nothing is happening (which there really cant be anything happening because of the reduction)
1 of 2 things needs to happen

1. the reduction need to be lowered to 35% or so, so it is even useable in combat
or
2. the duration needs to be lowered and the healing penalty increased to 60% (duration being 6 seconds)

right now it is really only use able out of combat or when there is a long pause in a fight, so we can no longer be balanced around useing it

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Q u o t e:

Silly Druids. Must you try and pick on Shamans because they didn't get any nerf? Shamans have the lowest mana regen of all healers.

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Our mana efficiency is crappy too. Maybe they will leave us alone, this time.