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Q u o t e:


We plan to stop with that naming convention somewhere right before "foo jackin' gladiator".

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tabard of the foo jackin gladiator should definitely be a gray drop in av...

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Q u o t e:



There's still plenty of room for some items to be pretty hard to get without causing most players to be left out of good gear. As I mentioned earlier, with the start of the next season we expect new teams and personal ratings to start much lower than they have before (not 1500). That way, everyone's experience is to climb toward the rating they're successfully playing at. So, knowing that, here's what our current thinking is on rating requirements for season 6.

Disclaimer: all of this is subject to change!
Other notes/caveats:
- items with no rating listed would have no rating requirement

- it won't be quite as easy to get deadly items via emblems of conquest as hateful items currently are via emblems of valor

- the new Archavon boss (a new boss located in another wing of the Vault of Archavon), will have slightly different drops than the current Archavon (he can drop Furious Gloves/Legs, or any possible random honor item in addition to tier 8 pve set items similar to Archavon's t7 pve set drops, but cannot drop the Furious Chest piece)

- honor/arena costs aren't listed but Hateful costs would be similar to current Savage, Deadly costs similar to current Hateful, and Furious costs would be similar to current Deadly

- you might note that the Furious weapon is still at a high requirement, 2k, the thinking being that most players are encouraged to get their weapon upgrade through pve, although hardcore arena competitors have an outlet to get an equivalent weapon through arenas (if you're hardcore enough for 2k, you can forego raiding for a weapon)

- additional note, "deadly trinket" refers to the current battlemaster's trinkets, "furious trinket" refers to an upgraded medallion of the alliance/horde


Hateful Gloves
Hateful Legs
Hateful Chest
Hateful Helm
Hateful Shoulders
Hateful Ring
Hateful Trinket

Deadly Bracer
Deadly Belt
Deadly Boots
Deadly Neck
Deadly Ring
Deadly Cape
Deadly Trinket

1300+: Deadly Relics/Idols/Librams/Totems
1350+: Deadly Gloves
1400+: Deadly Legs
1450+: Deadly Chest
1500+: Deadly Helm
1550+: Deadly Shoulders

1400+: Furious Bracer (honor)
1450+: Furious Belt (honor)
1500+: Furious Boots (honor)
1550+: Furious Neck (honor)

1600+: Furious Gloves
1650+: Furious Ring (honor)
1700+: Furious Legs
1750+: Furious Chest
1800+: Furious Trinket (honor)
1850+: Furious Helm
1900+: Furious Cape (honor)
1950+: Furious Wands/Relics/etc
2000+: Furious Weapon
2100+: Furious Shoulders
2300+: Furious Tabard (purely cosmetic and awesome looking)

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What exactly would be the point of having items that require sub 1500 rating. Couldn't anyone just remake a team to buy the items?

So there is no plans on lowering the amount of arena points required? (Mainly thinking about weapons).

I notice the Deadly gladiator weapons are missing, but maybe I overlooked you commenting on them in one of your posts. Are they going to be lowered in rating reqs (such as to 1830?) as well or removed?

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Q u o t e:
I notice the Deadly gladiator weapons are missing, but maybe I overlooked you commenting on them in one of your posts. Are they going to be lowered in rating reqs (such as to 1830?) as well or removed?

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Hmm, from what I can pick out, 'they' want us to get out weapons from PvE, but the better players can choose to opt for an arena weapon but at high rating and point cost. Probably why there aren't any hateful/savage weapons in currently.

But seeing how accessible naxx is, and probably even easier with Uld, I don't see weapons being a big problem. I have even yet to see a single person use Deadly Weapons, but maybe that's just me.

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Q u o t e:

I have even yet to see a single person use Deadly Weapons, but maybe that's just me.

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Does anyone else see that as a problem?

OK, now that it's been explained how this system will only really start to function properly next season I have no more complaints.

Now lets leave the matchmaking alone and focus on BALANCING the actual gameplay between classes. It's clear you can do it: Hunters went from a joke to Top literally overnight. Mages and rogues remain "strong" ie mid-tier. etc. Help out the under-represented classes, nerf (yes all out nerf) the silly OP classes like pvp holy paladin and DK, and adjust/fix the bizarre things you've introduced that have NOTHING to do with skill. Like arcane mage improved Silence followed by their CDs that outright guarantees 20K damage done from max range with no recourse. Explosive shot double-proccing and stunning.10K DK instant attacks that are somehow off the gcd with another 8K attack, coming from a class that could maintank sartharion probably with the exact same spec he's using in this arena match. Feral going to 35K bear yet STILL whaling with 4K crits every few sec. and on the opposite end of the spectrum a lock or priest unable to do a thing before dying vs many/most teams they face.

As a pretty simple point, PvP weapons need to be at least "on par with" PvE weapons. Right now, that is simply not true. Naax is a trivial instance, Betrayer is FAR superior to anything comparable as a Deadly Weapon. This cannot stand. It is not fair (or right) for blizzard to reward LUCKY and UNSKILLED PvE players who were fortunate enough to roll a high number on a Betrayer, while gimping everyone else.

I don't know exactly how to balance it perfectly (if it can even be done at all), but at least make the decision to use a PvE or PvP weapon one that takes some thought. As is, I can't imagine ever dropping Betrayer for the equivalent Deadly weapon.

Further, be very careful about balancing Ulduar loot and current PvP gear. If Ulduar loot is too superior to current Valorous gear (and if there's a new super ub3r weapon on the horizon in PvE), it could break PvP even worse (with even MORE unstoppable bursting).

All I'm asking is for you guys to be careful when allocating statpoints in Ulduar :)

Does anyone else find it funny that people at sub 1500 ratings are complaining about this kind of stuff? I mean, it really does not matter if you are rated 800 or 1400, you are still categorized as bad.

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Q u o t e:


Hmm, I think I'll go back and bold some stuff at the beginning of what I wrote. =]

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Instead how about answering one very simple question:

1) Is it fair that I have played arena as a "Welfare Epic" (Blizzard employee's own term) joke for several seasons, only to find that all of those games when we danced instead of fought are now counted against me?

Kalgan,

I think the reason the masses are still confused about the system is because they still have the mindset that 1500 is the average, or 50/50.

The problem can probably be solved if everyone's Arena rating was zeroed, and a new range of arena rating numbers are used.

I am quite interested in the mathematics involved with WoW. If there are any openings at Blizzard in the design of such systems, be it new designs or revamping old mathematical models, please send me an email. I have a computer engineering degree and have a lot of experience in using mathematics and logic to solve complex problems.

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Q u o t e:


Instead how about answering one very simple question:

1) Is it fair that I have played arena as a "Welfare Epic" (Blizzard employee's own term) joke for several seasons, only to find that all of those games when we danced instead of fought are now counted against me?

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Yes. You choose to do that. If you are truly better then where the system has you due to that then you will win the majority of your games and pull out of that low rating bracket.

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Q u o t e:

- you might note that the Furious weapon is still at a high requirement, 2k, the thinking being that most players are encouraged to get their weapon upgrade through pve, although hardcore arena competitors have an outlet to get an equivalent weapon through arenas (if you're hardcore enough for 2k, you can forego raiding for a weapon)

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The concept of forcing people to PvE is not a good idea. I am a PvPer, and I dislike every minute spent in a dungeon. One of the main reasons why I dislike WotLK is because I am forced to spend a contiguous amounts of time in a static dungeon to PvP. Whereas I can make PvP progress without doing PvE in Burning Crusade.

Many people I know certainly do not have the time, nor the love for PvE to spend in a dungeon in order to be competitive in PvP. Many of them are logging on less and less. Some have already quit. I spent many, many hours in a dungeon trying to get Death Bite and I disliked every minute of it. I almost quit the game because of it. For me, I'd much rather spend that time doing BGs or Arenas. There should be a way for PvPers to obtain competitive weapons through PvP.

Take Season 5, for example, I have seen far more people with Betrayer of Humanity than someone with 2000+ rating. It only makes sense that Deadly weapons in Season 5 should be equivalent to Betrayer of Humanity, while the non-existent Hateful weapon should be equivalent to Jawbone, or Death Bite, and should be obtainable at 1700-1800.

A better design would allow for two styles of gameplay; allowing advancement options in both PvP and PvE. Forcing players to do what they dislike will only cause them to quit the game.

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Q u o t e:
Not really, one of the main reasons why they said they implemented this was people were complaining about gladiators rerolling teams and "destorying" the lower rated people. That can't happen with this system.

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I'm sure such gladiators were outnumbered by low rank players who reformed teams to boost their ratings. And those latter players cannot now escape the more accurate evaluation of their skill by reforming teams.

I am not surprised they are complaining and unhappy.

Hey Kalgan,

Some really cool ideas for S7. However, have you guys considered a further tier of hard-to-get PVP weapons?

I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 2400~ with the new inflation of rating, basically PVP items that are competitive in ilvl with the best PVE drops. I know you guys want us to do PVE, and I do, but it really sucks when PVE is not only often the easier option, but also the best, by far option.

I know you guys didn't like people PVPing to PVE, hence my suggestion of the really high rating, anyone who can get 2400~ rating would be able to get the PVE weapons of equivelant ilvl much easier, so there's no problem with them bringing it into PVE.

I am like the rest of us and am not quite sure how this works. I played a team last night that had ~1450 TR and we have ~1850 TR we won and got 16 points this happened several times not saying I don't like the points I just don't understand it and don't want arena to die.

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Q u o t e:
- it won't be quite as easy to get deadly items via emblems of conquest as hateful items currently are via emblems of valor

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Ooh, a PvE gem of information in a PvP post.

Reading between the lines a tad: Don't expect new loot for your Emblems of Valor like badges at 70 got when new dungeons released. Ulduar will be dropping Emblems of Conquest and Valor loot is staying as-is.

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Q u o t e:



There's still plenty of room for some items to be pretty hard to get without causing most players to be left out of good gear. As I mentioned earlier, with the start of the next season we expect new teams and personal ratings to start much lower than they have before (not 1500). That way, everyone's experience is to climb toward the rating they're successfully playing at. So, knowing that, here's what our current thinking is on rating requirements for season 6.

Disclaimer: all of this is subject to change!
Other notes/caveats:
- items with no rating listed would have no rating requirement

- it won't be quite as easy to get deadly items via emblems of conquest as hateful items currently are via emblems of valor

- the new Archavon boss (a new boss located in another wing of the Vault of Archavon), will have slightly different drops than the current Archavon (he can drop Furious Gloves/Legs, or any possible random honor item in addition to tier 8 pve set items similar to Archavon's t7 pve set drops, but cannot drop the Furious Chest piece)

- honor/arena costs aren't listed but Hateful costs would be similar to current Savage, Deadly costs similar to current Hateful, and Furious costs would be similar to current Deadly

- you might note that the Furious weapon is still at a high requirement, 2k, the thinking being that most players are encouraged to get their weapon upgrade through pve, although hardcore arena competitors have an outlet to get an equivalent weapon through arenas (if you're hardcore enough for 2k, you can forego raiding for a weapon)

- additional note, "deadly trinket" refers to the current battlemaster's trinkets, "furious trinket" refers to an upgraded medallion of the alliance/horde


Hateful Gloves
Hateful Legs
Hateful Chest
Hateful Helm
Hateful Shoulders
Hateful Ring
Hateful Trinket

Deadly Bracer
Deadly Belt
Deadly Boots
Deadly Neck
Deadly Ring
Deadly Cape
Deadly Trinket

1300+: Deadly Relics/Idols/Librams/Totems
1350+: Deadly Gloves
1400+: Deadly Legs
1450+: Deadly Chest
1500+: Deadly Helm
1550+: Deadly Shoulders

1400+: Furious Bracer (honor)
1450+: Furious Belt (honor)
1500+: Furious Boots (honor)
1550+: Furious Neck (honor)

1600+: Furious Gloves
1650+: Furious Ring (honor)
1700+: Furious Legs
1750+: Furious Chest
1800+: Furious Trinket (honor)
1850+: Furious Helm
1900+: Furious Cape (honor)
1950+: Furious Wands/Relics/etc
2000+: Furious Weapon
2100+: Furious Shoulders
2300+: Furious Tabard (purely cosmetic and awesome looking)

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These changes sound great, but.. we really have to wait till 3.1 or is season 6 going to start earlier...? Given Blizzard's recent record of much slower patches 3.1 is still like 2 months away at best, what incentive do sub 1650 players (60%+ of your players) have to keep playing arenas for the next two months if they can't get anything? I see alot of people quiting and canceling their accounts long before 3.1 can save the day. Also are arena points being reset at the end of the season?