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Aratil
Blizzard Poster
  • 0. Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:07:14 AM PST
quote reply
Why am I 1300 when my record is 50/50? 70/30?
Let’s turn the question around first. Why is my record 50/50? If your record is 50/50, that means your match-making rating (MMR) is almost exactly correct for you. It means we are finding teams that as near as possible match the ability of your team. It means that you are being matched as fairly as possible. If we matched 1300 teams at 1500 instead, they would only win 30% of their matches. We would rather those teams win half their matches.

But I’m 70/30, what about that?
If you are 70/30 and we think you are 1300, your MMR will climb to roughly 1533. You will then be matched with 1500+ teams, and your record should decrease to 50/50.

Yeah, so why is my rating still going down then?
The team rating will drop until it reaches the average match-making rating of the teams you beat 50% of the time. For example, if we are matching you against 1200-rated teams, and you are winning half the time, it will drop to 1200. If you are winning 70% of the time against 1200-rated teams, then your MMR and TR should move up to 1433.

But I’m not matching 1200-rated teams, I looked these teams up and most are near 1500.
It is likely that those teams have an MMR of 1200, even though their TR is 1500. This means that even though they look like 1500 or 1400-rated teams, they have been playing more like 1200-rated teams this season.

No matter what I do, my rating dives to 1300
If your team rating keeps diving to 1300 while you win 50% of your matches, then you are winning matches against 1300 players.
Being 1300 means:
-- You go 50/50 vs 1300 teams
-- You are better than 25% of all teams
It means that the teams we are matching you against have average MMRs well under 1500.

How will I get to 1650?
-- The definition of a 1650 team in both the new and old system is “Better than 68% of all teams on this BG in this bracket”
-- To be 1650, your team needs to be better than 68% of all teams
-- This means you will beat a team with an MMR of 1500 63 out of 100 matches, and go 50/50 vs. a team with an MMR of 1650

Wait, why 63%? Shouldn’t it be 68% then?
-- Smart question! The reason it’s not 68% is because a 1650-rated team does not always perform exactly at 1650. We take this into account.

But I’m stuck at 1300, I never get to play those higher-rated teams:
-- A 1650 player will win about 4 of 5 matches against a 1300 player
-- If you are at 1300 but belong at 1650, you should be winning 4 of every 5 matches
-- If you do that, your MMR will go up steadily, and you will face harder and harder opponents
-- Once you move your MMR to 1650, your TR will follow

How long will this take?
-- This depends on how much evidence we have that you *were* a 1300 team
-- If your team *Really* is a 1650 team, average case is 40 games
-- But it can go higher and lower. Great luck = 16, Terrible luck = 150

I guess that’s correct theoretically, but it’s very discouraging:
We do believe that we can improve the experience for teams that start at 1500 and go down from there. However, the changes we prefer merit waiting for the next arena season.

[ Post edited by Aratil ]

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  • 3. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:12:51 AM PST
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so can you tell us we we lose like 20 rating per loss but get maybe 10 rating per win even at 1600

[ Post edited by Gelan ]

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  • Skywall
  • 4. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:14:06 AM PST
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after reading this, my first thought is " why would anyone play arena?"

watching paint dry seems less arbitrary and more fun.

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  • 5. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:34:00 AM PST
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While I understand all of what you typed, it also means I'm done with arenas.

Because apparently I made the mistake of playing arena season 1-5 with my friends and most of the time as a protection spec paladin. It was fun, and it didn't matter. I didn't even spend on much, I had a set of S3 healing gear and ret gear. I used them in BGs. I pvp'd with a shadow priest as a protection paladin. We lost. A lot.

Now what I'm finding out is all that time I spent just having fun (and rarely if ever rebuying my teams, I was happy to spend time at 1300 rating before because I could win some) means that I basically have zero shot of ever getting above 1600. Because not only would I have to find a better class to pair with, but even if I rebuy my team I'm going to plummet right back down to probably 1200 rating and then win something like 8 of 10 games consistently to see much of a rating gain.

Great.

At least you could have let me know that I was hurting myself by not trying to be competitive before. Now I might as well level a new character to PVP with. Because for playing S1-4 as Prot Pally/S Priest and going 5/5 at 1300 rating, I'm screwed and will never get enough rating to spend arena points.

Yay.
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  • 6. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:40:01 AM PST
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I've got to say this is a decent idea. However, in the arena's of today it is a completely illogical and unprecedented change considering it's nearly the end of a season.

I don't understand how you can just randomly throw this into the middle of everything without any apparent testing. Have you even thought of the people (like myself) that play arena's just for fun and hopefully to get a 1650+ rating for the non "lolbad" blue PvP gear?

The system as it is now more or less guarantee's that 60-63% of all arena players will not be getting the gear? Am I misinterpreting this? That's already broken seeing as how most teams already have said gear at the point of the change and now they're watching their ratings plummet at unbelievable rates.

I don't know, I just think it was an incredibly terrible change to a system that already worked well as it was. The new system will, in my opinion, completely frustrate the casual arena players into quitting or barely ever playing. As it is sometimes it's hard to get in 10 games a week due to work/raids etc. Now there's absolutely no point to even try.

"Yay we got Arena Points! Oh ... wait, there's absolutely nothing useful we can spend them on..."

Ok, my tirade is done.
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  • Winterhoof
  • 7. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:41:28 AM PST
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tl;dr- If you're winning more than 50% of your matches, your rating will climb until you start winning only 50% of your matches. If you're winning less than 50% of your matches, your rating will fall until you start winning only 50% of your matches.

"These forums are as much an indicator of the players' happiness as a hospital is an indicator of public health." -Feoria of Shadowmoon
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  • 8. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:43:19 AM PST
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May we discuss the reward system next?

I don't know the exact numbers, but isnt it something like only the top 10-20% of PvPers can get Deadly gear or hateful set gear?

So if you work your rump off in PvP, do your best, but somehow fall short of the top 10-20% due to skill, class choice, teammates, etc, then you have no chance of getting rewarded beyond the blue set?

Yet if you PvE, and get lucky, not only can you get better gear, but you can also get the coveted Deadly/Hateful set gear, without ever having to step into an arena or BG. No PvP experience required. No personal rating required.

So my choices are:

Work my rump off in PvP and get nothing beyond blues and a few off-set hateful, and a huge pile of points that I can never spend.

or

PvE, get lucky, and get the entire set without any PvP, honor, Arenas or rating required.

Seems very discouraging and unfair to those who PvP and try their best every day to improve in PvP.

May i have your thought on this please?

[ Post edited by Tyefang ]

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  • Winterhoof
  • 9. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:48:33 AM PST
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Q u o t e:
While I understand all of what you typed, it also means I'm done with arenas.

Because apparently I made the mistake of playing arena season 1-5 with my friends and most of the time as a protection spec paladin. It was fun, and it didn't matter. I didn't even spend on much, I had a set of S3 healing gear and ret gear. I used them in BGs. I pvp'd with a shadow priest as a protection paladin. We lost. A lot.

Now what I'm finding out is all that time I spent just having fun (and rarely if ever rebuying my teams, I was happy to spend time at 1300 rating before because I could win some) means that I basically have zero shot of ever getting above 1600. Because not only would I have to find a better class to pair with, but even if I rebuy my team I'm going to plummet right back down to probably 1200 rating and then win something like 8 of 10 games consistently to see much of a rating gain.

Great.

At least you could have let me know that I was hurting myself by not trying to be competitive before. Now I might as well level a new character to PVP with. Because for playing S1-4 as Prot Pally/S Priest and going 5/5 at 1300 rating, I'm screwed and will never get enough rating to spend arena points.

Yay.


Why don't you actually, like, try it, and see how fast you can 'correct' your MMR if you play seriously instead of erecting a giant wall of drama queen about it?

Also note that MMRs are by bracket last I checked, so the system is to an extent designed to support people having a 'fun' team and a 'serious' team.

"These forums are as much an indicator of the players' happiness as a hospital is an indicator of public health." -Feoria of Shadowmoon
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  • 12. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:55:49 AM PST
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How many games am I doomed to play every week? IF you only play your basic 10 you are doomed for failure it seems.

[ Post edited by Meowth ]


You thought arena ratings were broken before? Try this on for size.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7278/02012009204453nl0.jpg
(。◕‿‿◕。)
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  • 13. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:57:59 AM PST
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Q u o t e:


Why don't you actually, like, try it, and see how fast you can 'correct' your MMR if you play seriously instead of erecting a giant wall of drama queen about it?

Also note that MMRs are by bracket last I checked, so the system is to an extent designed to support people having a 'fun' team and a 'serious' team.


So by try, you mean what? Find a DK to play with? This month anyways. Until next month when DKs and Holy get adjusted somehow, and I have to find a new partner?

I'm sorry, I tried last week. I mean, I kept my priest partner that I'm good friends with. And we're both at least average players, though not great. But we tried. You know what happened? I played a bunch of dual mages, hunters, and rogues that took us apart. And when we did win, we gained 5 points. And we'd lose to a team that demolished us and we'd lose 16-20 points. This despite being able to maintain a 1450 or so rating for the earlier portion of S5 as Prot/Shadow and Prot/Holy.

No. No thanks. I'd rather just stop playing then have to get new people to play with just so I can "try".
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  • Burning Blade
  • 14. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 10:59:37 AM PST
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"Can't win matches without gear, can't get gear without winning matches".
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  • 15. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 11:01:37 AM PST
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2 questions:
- Why not start new teams at 1300 then, since it seems to be the middle ground these days ?
- What history was used in determining the MMR ? No clear answer was given as to whether it was only S5 or more than that. Because if it's only S5, I'd like to know why my personal rating differs from that of my teammate who hasn't played any other game either.

Thanks
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Kalgan
Blizzard Poster
  • 16. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 11:17:39 AM PST
quote reply

Q u o t e:
While I understand all of what you typed, it also means I'm done with arenas.

Because apparently I made the mistake of playing arena season 1-5 with my friends and most of the time as a protection spec paladin. It was fun, and it didn't matter. I didn't even spend on much, I had a set of S3 healing gear and ret gear. I used them in BGs. I pvp'd with a shadow priest as a protection paladin. We lost. A lot.

Now what I'm finding out is all that time I spent just having fun (and rarely if ever rebuying my teams, I was happy to spend time at 1300 rating before because I could win some) means that I basically have zero shot of ever getting above 1600. Because not only would I have to find a better class to pair with, but even if I rebuy my team I'm going to plummet right back down to probably 1200 rating and then win something like 8 of 10 games consistently to see much of a rating gain.

Great.

At least you could have let me know that I was hurting myself by not trying to be competitive before. Now I might as well level a new character to PVP with. Because for playing S1-4 as Prot Pally/S Priest and going 5/5 at 1300 rating, I'm screwed and will never get enough rating to spend arena points.

Yay.


You are by no means pigeonholed in the 1300's, it simply means that to rise to 1600 you'll have to be able to beat 1600 teams half the time. As stated above, if you're still 1300 it's because you're still losing to 1300 teams half the time, which kind of means you really should be at 1300, not because a rating system is keeping you there out of spite.

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  • 18. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 11:22:14 AM PST
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Kalgan:

I have a couple of semi-technical questions about the new scheme.

(1) Does it enforce a normal distribution on the rankings of active arena players? (I do NOT mean: does a normal distribution of skill arise naturally in the population.)

(2) Is the system resistant to "ladder collapse" if low ranking players are more likely to become inactive? That is, if just the high ranked players continue to play, will their average rankings stay the same, or will they drift down over time?

[ Post edited by Osmeric ]

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  • Tichondrius
  • 19. Re: Arena Matchmaking System FAQ   02/05/2009 11:29:05 AM PST
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One question:

What about resilience?

Can you guys FIX it plz.

Resilience is useless VS those who use PVE gear!!!

[ Post edited by Roseloveu ]


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