Thanks for the vague but prompt reply. Most of the fury warriors would begrudgingly admit to deep wounds OPness.

I always felt that Deep wounds should not only be fixed but nerfed and both Deep Arms buffed (a lot) and Deep Fury buffed through a passive warrior only buff to Rampage (to make it viable and comparable to the druid heal). Most likely the DW nerf and Rampage buff would be an overall nerf though final numbers would only come from testing.

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Q u o t e:
We have been working on fixing the bugs with Deep Wounds so that we wouldn't have to just nerf it across the board. Some of those hotfixes may have gone in.

Fury in particular was doing too much damage on many encounters solely because of these bugs. We think Arms pve damage is probably too low, but we don't want to adjust that by having a buggy Deep Wounds. We also want to make sure prot warriors do not lose too much damage or threat.

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AKA "Sorry arms, you're going to be gimped for a while still. Please spec fury if you'd like to be able to kill someone in PvP and be worthwhile to bring to a raid."

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Q u o t e:


It doesn't work the same way, deep wounds works off 48% weapon damage, its a subtle but huge difference. On fights like thadius, ect, it was actually "triple dipping."

Because.

1.) The weapon damage got all the modifiers (Enrage or Death wish, Two handed spec.)
2.) Then the bleed got those same modifiers (Enrage/Death+Two handed spec).

Then, on thadius, it would double double dip.

1.) Weapon damage got warrior modifers.
2.) Weapon damage got Thadius modifiers
3.) Bleed damage got warrior modifiers
4.) Bleed damage got Thadius modifiers

So those modifiers were being applied twice, to the same damage source, just since said damage source was a static value, rather than the critical strike itself, it double dipped.

No other ability works the same way, as I recall.

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I hope you are right, but RV works by getting 40% of the crit of DS and judgements back as a DoT. So on thaddius we got the RV DoT gaining off the increased crits, and then each RV tick double dipping on debuff as well, so with 10 stacks RV was getting 40% of a 100% increased crit, so 80% normal, and then 100% increase with each tick as well, so 160% normal.

It caused some head scratching at first as it was doing double the expected damage, 80% judge and crit damage, not 40%.

I think RV and DW work in the same way, it is just that RV works off fewer abilities so never normally really stacks up to big ticks. It does all the same functions like rolling unused ticks into the next proc that DW does, it is just on an 8 second DoT affected by 8 second and 10 second CD abilites so it drops off often.

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Q u o t e:
We have been working on fixing the bugs with Deep Wounds so that we wouldn't have to just nerf it across the board. Some of those hotfixes may have gone in.

Fury in particular was doing too much damage on many encounters solely because of these bugs. We think Arms pve damage is probably too low, but we don't want to adjust that by having a buggy Deep Wounds. We also want to make sure prot warriors do not lose too much damage or threat.

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Please, just buff one of our exclusive talents that would force players to NOT take DW.
The 'threat spec' we're all running with is a bandaid GC, we adapt until things are fixed.

You didn't actually think that prot warriors 'liked' having 15 of our talent points in an off spec
tree, did you?

The real solution here is leave DW alone and park it at the top end of the Arms tree. It's
a problem talent that ALL 3 specs are taking. And it's in the 3rd tier of Arms. Nothing
in the 3rd tier of a tree should feel required, and this one is for us atm.

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Q u o t e:


The ret ability righteous vengeance works in the same way as deep wounds, and is double dipping on thaddius. If you are fixing DW are you doing the same for RV.

I ask because at the moment ret is pretty much balanced for PvE, with this bug. So if it is hot fixed it could leave ret in trouble.

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balanced? ha! we're balanced in naxx because of the extra attacks and talent(s) we get to use.
ulduar comes and we lose a lot of that. once 3.1 hits, heavy raiding rets get auto-nerfed without the devs even having to touch the tree.

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Q u o t e:
They fixed the double dipping bug on bonus dmg, so no more 400% (576% with deathewish up) on Thaddius or Malygos. My Thaddius deep wounds was only 19% of my total DPS instead of 33-35% like it usually is on this one fight. That is more in line with its normal damage, which was 15% for the whole raid night.

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I can confirm this exact experience from comparing last night's Thaddius to the previous week's. 35% deep wounds dropped to 19%. The double-dip bug is apparently fixed.


My damage seemed off (low) throughout the night, but that might have been some bad luck RNG.

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Q u o t e:
We have been working on fixing the bugs with Deep Wounds so that we wouldn't have to just nerf it across the board. Some of those hotfixes may have gone in.

Fury in particular was doing too much damage on many encounters solely because of these bugs. We think Arms pve damage is probably too low, but we don't want to adjust that by having a buggy Deep Wounds. We also want to make sure prot warriors do not lose too much damage or threat.

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Could you explain what was changed? Nerfing a classes DPS without any note telling us it happened is a little frustrating.

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Q u o t e:
We have been working on fixing the bugs with Deep Wounds so that we wouldn't have to just nerf it across the board. Some of those hotfixes may have gone in.

Fury in particular was doing too much damage on many encounters solely because of these bugs. We think Arms pve damage is probably too low, but we don't want to adjust that by having a buggy Deep Wounds. We also want to make sure prot warriors do not lose too much damage or threat.

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So how about that Arms pvp???


And i agree. if deep wounds is bugged and is double dipping, its not a nerf to have it fixed.

However if anything is gonna make arms pve or pvp dmg go down any further. it will still hurt. Fury warriors might be less viable in pvp as well. I think the fact that they can burst big compensates for lack of reliable MS.

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Q u o t e:

Could you explain what was changed? Nerfing a classes DPS without any note telling us it happened is a little frustrating.

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They fixed the double dipping bug. Probably would have been nicer to have a post, but they hotfix bugs for classes all the time, without notice.

I really don't understand all of the QQing. If you are actually skilled and have worked to have decent gear, fury warriors have been topping meters since lvl 60. I raided MC and BWL fury spec, still got above rogues using thunderfury. Just play your class, use your skills. Don't depend on bad mechanics.

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Q u o t e:
I really don't understand all of the QQing. If you are actually skilled and have worked to have decent gear, fury warriors have been topping meters since lvl 60. I raided MC and BWL fury spec, still got above rogues using thunderfury. Just play your class, use your skills. Don't depend on bad mechanics.

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And if you're arms you've become about as useless as a combat rogue! (No offense to you rogues, I hope you get buffs too so I can see less DK's in my guild)

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Q u o t e:


This is the change we made: Number 2 will no longer happen. Instead Deep Wounds will just be a percentage of the damage calculated in number 1.

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thankyou!

Thanks for the clarification GC, both of the fact the the fix took place and its effect.

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Q u o t e:


This is the change we made: Number 2 will no longer happen. Instead Deep Wounds will just be a percentage of the damage calculated in number 1.

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Excellent, thank you for the confirmation :).

I'll chime in here and I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable warriors can help me out. I don't wanna QQ but I do want to make sense of all this. I've played a fury warrior since the beginning of this game and to put it bluntly, if I'm dpsing against a pure who's bad, I will always out dps them. If they are really good (like some of the players in my guild), they will usually edge me out. On charts I find myself near the top contending with some of the best players in my guild. I believe this to be working as intended.

Now with that said, last night was a completely different story. I realize DW may have been fixed for fights that scale damage such as Thaddius and I'm perfectly fine with that. My main concern is not so much my DW contribution on those fights, but rather my damage output for the ENTIRE NIGHT. On Patchwerk for example where I'm usually around the #1 2 or 3 spot in my raid, I came in 12th last night. I can provide WWS for last night upon request but what I'm wondering is, was something else changed with fury warriors? I would usually average around 4600 DPS on that fight from week to week, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. Last night I did about 3900 DPS. Something changed.

I do know of a difference in the raid makeup though which I did not think could possibly make that big a difference and I'm hoping some of the more experienced players can chime in on this - enh shammies. How much DPS do they honestly provide to the melee in particular to a Fury Warrior. Ours was missing last night so I am sure I can attribute some of my dps loss to his absence. I'm still at a loss however why my damage dropped by THAT much.