Only problem is that it is applied to ourselves O.o

Not to call you out Ghostcrawler, but it seems like you have been dodging the Ret QQ's lately (many with legit numbers and data that shouldn't be ignored), and many paladins are getting concerned. Don't get me wrong though, you are definately the best guy blizzards sent over to these boards in quite some time, and I like the attention you have been giving some of the other classes (i dont only play paladins)

Now, the title was mainly an attention grabber, and I'm not going to just post a random QQ in hopes of getting banned. Seriously though, why the nerf to ret/prot when Holy is the only one in need fo a nerf?

I actually posted this in hope that GC will confirm that Blizzard knows we face the following problems, and that they are going to do something about them

1) Ret DPS is bottom of the food chain, only currently better than feral druids (who don't scale well and will be getting a buff). This is quite sad, since we are fighting undead mobs (about an 8% dps increase over normal mobs) and when you take out that 8% increase we are honestly tied for dead-last.

2) The only way we can pump out this not-so-great dps is by spamming concencrate, something that we are apparently not supposed to have to use to compete on the meters. Without spamming this mana-hog AoE we are far behind other classes. We need a single-target version of concencration or something else entirely

3) ** To put out any acceptable numbers, we have to play with complete selfishness **
-a) We have to use SoMartyr/Blood, and hurt ourselves in the process, and cant heal ourselves without OOMING incredibly fast and losing lots of damage
-b) We have to recieve heals from an outside source for the damage we do onto ourselves or we will go OOM... (we need a babysitter)
-c) If we use utility we will go OOM quite fast, and most likely lose dps
-d) If we toss out instant FoL's we will lose a chunk of dps (swing timer reset) and go oom quick, not to mention they dont heal for all that much

4) There are 2 Retribution specced paladins in the top 100, 6 in the top 200, according to SK Gaming. I thought we were OP? Those are very weak numbers. Most of them are PvE specced/geared too, meaning that bubble is what is getting them their ranking. Once fights start playing out longer, and bubble cant make up for our flaws, I imagine these numbers will drop even lower.

5) We dont really have a rotation, its just a first come, first serve button mash. This makes it extremely unpleasant to dps

6) because of #5, if equally geared, a poorly skilled retadin and a skilled retadin will do similar dps, which is super frustrating for good players and too rewarding for bad players

7) Most paladins use SoMartyr/blood in PvP for the damage and bigger judments. You know SoCom needs a buff when you spend a talent point and a glyph on it and still bench it for its superior baseline brother

8) Sheathe of light does not scale with Sacred Shield. Why not? We obviously arent OP in arenas


-On a side note, I honest to god, soloed an 80 Retripally with TS Destroyer on my level 71 arcane mage. Out of like 7 fights, he killed me twice (he used LoH for his first win, and then flew down on me after a rez for his 2nd). i have 8k HP and am 9 levels lower, how should this be possible? Also he wasnt a noob, I just gave him no chance to do anything. Slow, nova, spellsteal BoF (never worked but i tried), iceblock, instant invis, 2 min CD evocate (glyphed). Extreme burst and good sustainable mobile damage, blink out of HoJ, mana gem, mana shield, human racial.

Whats he got? BoF (stealable), repent, and HoJ which is blinked out of, bubble = 50% less damage but atleast lets close some distance before i iceblock or just nova if his BoF is on CD.

TL:DR - Ret could use some buffs, not nerfs

thanks for reading!

Argh... the trolls will blot out the sun

you should learn how to use pillars. or rocks. or anything that is standing around to los the mage

Your friend fails man. I beat a challenger arcane mage on my ret pally at 70, even with the guy kiting so well that most of my hits were judgements. Blizzard needs to stop paying attention to baddies who can't play their class and help the gimp classes that actually need it.

I could be wrong but I think the OP is saying mages counter pallys, which any decent ret pally who plays a similarly geared/skilled mage would agree. With the level disadvantage it is pretty much safe to assume that the pally that got rocked is bad, and it's probably true, but besides the point.

As far as I can tell (Started out ret when WoW first came out, went holy after three months until s3 of TBC, then ret again) ret is purely countered by
-mages
- Warlocks (yes, even now if they constantly fear and don't demon it up)

In the end every class is going to have some counters, but it would be nice to be somewhat competitive versus these since they make up (or soon will make up) a good chunk of arena gladiators.

---

Q u o t e:


I'm mainly just pointing out how we aren't OP anymore. We do weak PvE dps and have only 2% representation in the top 100 arena players, 3% in the top 200.

---

This is not because ret is underpowered.

It is because Holy is overpowered.

---

Q u o t e:


Maybe semi-true for the arena representation, but it has nothing to do with PvE.

Even with holydins skewing the numbers, Survival hunters, UH Dk's, Resto shams, arcane mages, Mut/prep rogues, fury warriors, resto druids, and Haunt warlocks are all ahead of us, and most other classes are just about equal with us
Edit: (in arena, according to SK Gaming)

---

In PvE ya may need some help.

But in PvP, you're fine, you're just suffering from your other spec being massively OP so all the paladins go that route and find X DPS (hopefully a DK!) to pair up with and #%@!.

---

Q u o t e:
No he wasn't that bad, he used repentance and bubble at decent times, but there was nothing else he could do to my 8k Hp except for a 2k judge crit (2k abosrbed by mana shield) when he repentanced me and trinket was on CD

---

a 71 dk solo'd an 80 rogue. new news is new

Ret is a great PvP spec right now. Why would you need an MS effect? L2P.