Stormbolt

Make it happen

Ditch Starfail or make it trainable its not cutting it as a 51 pointer at all.

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Q u o t e:
Stormbolt

Make it happen

Ditch Starfail or make it trainable its not cutting it as a 51 pointer at all.

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Don't ditch Starfall it would be worth it for a trainable spell.

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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Thanks for the update. While you are messing around with starfall, don't forget to peek around the rest of the balance tree while you at it!!

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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I know that this is just player opinion and that you probably disagree, but I can't say I think of extra damage during AoE packs as being very high on the list of things Moonkins needed moving into Wrath.

Please consider giving it some kind of secondary effect that makes it (and Moonkins) worthwhile in PvP.

What I would like to see is instant on demand CC and controllable burst thats off of the RNG, our only real burst besides cyclone-starfire combo relies on eclipse and 4set. Another concern I think moonkins have is keeping targets in range.

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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If the future damage increase to Starfall is enough, I may consider picking it up again but it will have to be a BIG increase in the damage from that spell given the mana cost, problems with casting it in many places, etc.

I specced out of it after the last patch and have not missed it AT ALL. - No real reason to go back unless it show a strong benefit over doing another typhoon.

Ironically, over the weekend I leveled my Shadow Priest form 60-65 for some crafting needs. Dispersion is AMAZING compared to teh suck that is Starfall. Why can't boomkins have a great 51pt talent like that?

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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It's just too situational

1. You have to be extemely careful with it in instances.
2. It's an 'extra' button you have to remember to push when it's off cooldown
3. It's only modest damage unless you have a huge pack of mobs
4. No real use in pvp because of stuns and shifting breaking it.

When you start eliminating all the times you can't use it, and then factor in that it costs a talent and a place on your hotbar.. it's just too easy to pass over it. Getting 1% extra damage on my IS and MFs (via genesis) is something that i benefit from every fight and it does'nt require my 'attention'.

If I could add something (please ignore if this has been mentioned, I didn't have time to read the entire thread), but as a PVE moonkin, this spell is definitely loosing ground with the high-end raiders. It is kind of a "trick" spell that gets through a casual raider's radar because they get high numbers with it for AOEing trash down. The problem with it in high end raiding (and why many many of us are dropping it for a point in dreamstate or some other thing), is that high end raiders almost never spec for trash damage, and that's all this spell is. Some like to use it on boss fights for an extra 2 NG procs or so, but even that is proving to be a waste of a GCD at higher gear levels.

There are definitely those "niche" fights like Gluth where starfall comes in fierce handy with the zombies, but past those few, it has lost its luster.

Hell, even PVP kins are often skipping it nowadays.

I understand it is hard to balance a spell, but even overhauling it or giving us something different would be beneficial.

Honestly, I think your population numbers on who grabs this talent will be a bit off because many casual raiders (the majority of the population) will still pick it up assuming AOE damage is always a good way to down trash, whereas the hardcore raiders know you never spec for trash. It's the same difference as your numbers on how many raiders grab Typhoon. Not many doing 25 maly and sarth 3d have it, same with starfall now.

A good look would be appreciated, thanks ahead of time for any work you put into it. I realize not every talent should be good for pvp and pve, but for a 51 pointer in a great PVE damage spec? We should get something for our investment that far into the tree, no?

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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Thanks for the post, however, its not meeting any need we have ever had. We do not need extra damage when we are channeleing hurricane, especially since its tied to a 3 min CD and hurricane has a secondary effect, where starfall has nothing going for it.

Starfall is too cumbersome to be useful. Its AoE range is too large ot be of any use and the glyoh of focus is waisting a Major glyph slot, ive never seen anyone pick it up in all honesty. It requires you to sand very close to a boss making you able to be hit by the bosses AoE attacks so my guild doesnt even want me to try out the glyph.

Starfall is more of a liablilty and handicap than anything else.

We arent crying over it not destealthing or AoE stuning, were saying it fills no role we need.

The stormbolt idea is actually something we wil find uses in many situations and warents its place as a 51 point talent in the balance tree.

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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How do you feel about its cooldown?

i am of the opinion that a 3 min cooldown AoE damaging ability has to be devastating to be worth the relatively short up time of 10 secs and situational use, but starfall doesn't meet my "devastating" criteria but that also depends on what the coefficient will be post patch.

Additionally, for a 3 min cooldown "extra damage" ability that can be cc'ed or self-removed the damage is not "devastating" in pvp either. Its damage does not warrant the high cooldown, mana cost, and suppression upon shapeshifting, stuns, or cc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the "extra damage" provided by starfall < the 3 min cooldown.

Scaling it with spellpower is an obvious thing that had to be addressed sooner or later. Glad to hear it will be soon(tm)-er.

The other problem moonkins have, is apart from treants and starfall we have no 'choosable' burst. No rapid fire, no tiger's fury, no beast within, no adrenaline rush, etc. Starfall doesn't really amount to much 'burst', and actually probably doesn't see any effect from heroism (since its running in the background anyway). I suggest again here that all moonkin damage is boosted by ~20-30% while starfall is active. I calculated that would be a ~1.5% damage increase on a boss if used randomly and a ~2.5% damage increase if used smartly (with heroism). It wouldn't throw moonkins out of whack and would make us feel more intelligent than just praying for eclipse proc AFTER heroism instead of getting eclipse proc 10-seconds BEFORE heroism.

Also, please let treants get the benefit of heroism even if they're cast after heroism is started. Right now we HAVE to get them down before heroism for them to get the buff.

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Q u o t e:
If I could add something (please ignore if this has been mentioned, I didn't have time to read the entire thread), but as a PVE moonkin, this spell is definitely loosing ground with the high-end raiders. It is kind of a "trick" spell that gets through a casual raider's radar because they get high numbers with it for AOEing trash down. The problem with it in high end raiding (and why many many of us are dropping it for a point in dreamstate or some other thing), is that high end raiders almost never spec for trash damage, and that's all this spell is. Some like to use it on boss fights for an extra 2 NG procs or so, but even that is proving to be a waste of a GCD at higher gear levels.

There are definitely those "niche" fights like Gluth where starfall comes in fierce handy with the zombies, but past those few, it has lost its luster.

Hell, even PVP kins are often skipping it nowadays.

I understand it is hard to balance a spell, but even overhauling it or giving us something different would be beneficial.

Honestly, I think your population numbers on who grabs this talent will be a bit off because many casual raiders (the majority of the population) will still pick it up assuming AOE damage is always a good way to down trash, whereas the hardcore raiders know you never spec for trash. It's the same difference as your numbers on how many raiders grab Typhoon. Not many doing 25 maly and sarth 3d have it, same with starfall now.

A good look would be appreciated, thanks ahead of time for any work you put into it. I realize not every talent should be good for pvp and pve, but for a 51 pointer in a great PVE damage spec? We should get something for our investment that far into the tree, no?

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You have a valid point. The main reason I have it right now is for grinding timbermaw/sporregar/kurenai rep for the title.

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Q u o t e:
soon (tm).

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sorry boomkins, maybe in season 9...

maybe

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Q u o t e:


sorry boomkins, maybe in season 9...

maybe

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This game is not JUST about arenas! to hell with arenas

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Q u o t e:
we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

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I just think it's weird when you say this considering how recently talents like T.N.T. have been added into the game. You mentioned something earlier about removing the stun chance from starfire as well... I hope that's not because you consider it to be overpowered.

Druids just recently fell below warlocks in top 100 arena representation, but I'm sure you knew that. I don't think this is because druids tend to be worse players.

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Q u o t e:


This game is not JUST about arenas! to hell with arenas

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Yes, to hell with my actions having an obvious meaningful impact on the outcome of a match, that's just way too much pressure!

Coming strictly from a PvP perspective the removal of the stun effect from Starfall leaves a gaping hole in a balance druid's arsenal for offense and defense alike. We have basically no way to stun and gun an opponent to put pressure on a healer or finish someone off at low health. Starfall finally gave us a chance at having a few precious seconds to do just that, and a little dps to boot. I'm not trying to suggest that we need enhanced forms of generic cc. Cyclone and roots are both immensely useful, but having an honest to goodness stun effect was like manna from heaven. Taking it way without some hint of replacing it somehow is extraordinarily disappointing and what's more I believe will just hurt worse and worse as the PvP gear rolls in.

I'm confident that the change will result in significantly lower arena ratings now and I suspect that things will just get worse until those Boomkins who are serious about PvP finally relent and head back to restoration.

Ah i forgot to add in the effect is surpressed when cced. Yeah.

Your time and attention to this spell isnt worth it. Please add something we can use because in about 8 major content patches this willl be trainable just like hurricane was. I we should just get a usefull tree toper sooner rather than later.

This spell wasnt even tested enough in the beta because the final ranks werent available for months of the testing.

I think if it was tested for longer it would have been replaced jsut like what happened to spirit link or whatever it was.

ALSO

How does this fit with druid lore? Im not Tyrande.

You can make this viable if when i use starfall i turn into a sexy night elf chick and seduces all enemies in 30 yards. then i might actually use it for more than reputation grinding on gray mobs.

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Q u o t e:
The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

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I understand it's purpose of doing extra damage, but in my opinion, and in the opnion several others, we feel like axing the stuns on starfall would not be properly compensated for by adding extra damage. If you have a long term plan to improve on it, that's great, but the RNG stun gave us added survivability in PVP as well as PVE (the stun worked on a number of MoBs) and added to the unique quality of the spell.

At this point in time, though, it's been chipped away at and is a shadow of it's former self. I understand you don't want a 51 point talent to define a class, but what would the harm be in fixing two of our issues with one stone i.e. survivability and compensation for starfalls quarried state.

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Q u o t e:
I just think it's weird when you say this considering how recently talents like T.N.T. have been added into the game. You mentioned something earlier about removing the stun chance from starfire as well... I hope that's not because you consider it to be overpowered.

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It just means they only recently became un-enamored with random stuns, is all. I'm not sure what you are asking with respect to Starfire -- the ability itself may not be overpowered but they've decided that random stuns are bad overall so they ultimately are getting rid of all of them. They got rid of it on Starfall first because it was a more egregious offender, and because they need to rework Celestial Focus (and T.N.T.) a lot more when the stun component is removed. It's possible to remove Starfall from the list and still have Celestial Focus as a reasonably worthwhile talent, but if they got rid of all the random stun components without having settled on a replacement then the talent is pretty horrible.