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Q u o t e:
They can just nerf it to be off base mana <<

And yeah, replenishment is ridiculously overpowered and a large part of what's trivialising mana regen.

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Divine plea working off of base mana is either going to be extremely weak for holy paladins or extremely strong for ret paladins. Either way, this change is a bad one -- paladins are in a funny design space where it's equally possible to have 5k or 25k mana pools.

All they really need to do is tune ulduar to require a high amount of throughput from healers. They ought to make haste/crit/SP highly coveted and itemize gear to sacrifice enough regen to make efficiency an issue. They don't really need to do an overhaul of the system, they just need to make future content more demanding, and tweak the itemization accordingly.

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Q u o t e:


If they do anything with divine plea, its more then likely gonna be a longer cooldown or such but since that would hurt ret mana efficiency a lot more then holy I dont think thats gonna happen unless they compensate for it in JotW.

As sad as I am to say it, I think Illumination will be on the nerfing block I think :(

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I disagree. Right now, healadins are stacking Int in a major way; nerfing Illumination would produce the double-whammy of making Int even more desirable and Crit less so. I don't think Divine Plea is a problem at all; the problem is an Int stat that helps us out way, way too much.

THIS GAME IS SO FUN NOW

Having players be concerned about mana through out all levels of raiding seems like a itemization issue. The mana regen bonuses you get from tier to tier would have to be so minimal that the increased mana consumption that comes with harder content and more haste would counteract it.

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Q u o t e:


Divine plea working off of base mana is either going to be extremely weak for holy paladins or extremely strong for ret paladins. Either way, this change is a bad one -- paladins are in a funny design space where it's equally possible to have 5k or 25k mana pools.

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Making it extremely strong for Ret Paladins shouldn't be an issue. As a melee class they already have to deal with melee mechanics as well as all their abilities being on cooldowns. It's not as if a ret pally with infinite mana can spam eviscerate like a rogue with infinite energy, all they can really do is cast consecration more often.

Divine Plea returning 50% of base mana every 1 minute would be fine. It would give Holy Pallies around 8000-9000 mana in a 4-minute fight which is better than anything except Innervate.

Replenishment needs to get nerfed. The difference between a raid with replenishment and a raid without replenishment is far too high.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe efficiency isn't valued and priests don't have enough GCDs in between cooldowns....

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This quote frightens me. "Priests don't have enough GCDs in between cooldowns." I know this thread is speculating about a nerf to mana regeneration but this sounds more like Blizzard is thinking about adding casting times to some of the priest's instant spells.

If this is true, we are not only going to be the versatile healer, we are going to be the slowest.

Great... :(

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Q u o t e:
Making it extremely strong for Ret Paladins shouldn't be an issue. As a melee class they already have to deal with melee mechanics as well as all their abilities being on cooldowns. It's not as if a ret pally with infinite mana can spam eviscerate like a rogue with infinite energy, all they can really do is cast consecration more often.

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Do you remember how nuts ret paladins were with JotW at 33% of base mana? It'll be like that.

Healer regen is not OP. DPS blowing up the boss before its swing timer resets is.

since this thread is similar to the one i started - i'll just quote my own post:

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Q u o t e:

Why should we be worried about mana...when tanks and DPS shouldn't ?

Mana DPS classes have lots of ways to regain mana back - either through their own abilities, or through some other means such as JoWisdom (in which it's impossible for me to benefit w/o abandoning my duty).

And if they're still running dry ? They'll just sit there - doing nothing, then the fight drags on - guess whose mana pool is taking the hit ? When the party/raid finally wipes - what's the last thing people notice ? yes that's right - lack of heals. why the lack of heals ? no mana... "L2MANAGE MANA NUB !!!!!111!!oneoneoneeleveeeeeen"

Warlocks and Retridin (even when Plea is on cd) will never run dry - but again: whose mana pool is taking the hit ? Sure sure Retri can use SoComm - but that's just like telling players to use Lightwell, and we all know it works fine - amirite ?

Then there's the old, classic problem where there's no such thing as overdps - but what about overheals ? Only Holy Priest is kinda compensated.

With the current content, GC - are you trying to say that not only we have to heal incoming AE damages, but managing mana at the same time ? Maybe it's just me - but it is oxymoron.


... then people are wondering why it's so hard to get a healer nowadays....

look, as a hybrid I have no problem at all - if in the future: I don't like the way I have to heal - fine: I'll roll a DPS, or a tank.

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Q u o t e:
Divine plea working off of base mana is either going to be extremely weak for holy paladins or extremely strong for ret paladins. Either way, this change is a bad one -- paladins are in a funny design space where it's equally possible to have 5k or 25k mana pools.

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Either Divine Plea/Replenishemnt get the nerf or Illumination gets the nerf. As an ex-pally, I'd much rather not see Illumination eat the nerf. With spells at a fixed cost but Divine Plea/Replenishment providing substantial scaling, you get to a point where you really can spam HL non stop forever (whereas currently our pally can only hold HL spam for about 5 minutes). Using base mana prevents the infinite scaling problem.

As to the 5k or 25k problem, the easy solution is to make Imp. BoW provide 100/200% increase in mana returned by Divine Plea.

Being a healer in LK is just punishment. Oh how I'd swap to a primary DPS if you know... we could anyone another masochists to recruit.

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Q u o t e:
Either Divine Plea/Replenishemnt get the nerf or Illumination gets the nerf. As an ex-pally, I'd much rather not see Illumination eat the nerf. With spells at a fixed cost but Divine Plea/Replenishment providing substantial scaling, you get to a point where you really can spam HL non stop forever (whereas currently our pally can only hold HL spam for about 5 minutes). Using base mana prevents the infinite scaling problem.

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I land on the replenishment side of this coin. I believe that paladins are regenerating too much mana mostly because they get benefit from their int through replenishment and then get more benefit through their int-based regen mechanics. It's double dipping compared to a druid or priest, who want spirit for their personal regen mechanics but then want int for replenishment. I'd like to nerf replenishment and then see how paladin mana regeneration stacks up compared to the other healers.

In any case, I don't want to see illumination nerfed again. It's a class defining talent that everyone loves or envies. If paladins need to take a mana regen nerf, apply it elsewhere.

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Q u o t e:
As to the 5k or 25k problem, the easy solution is to make Imp. BoW provide 100/200% increase in mana returned by Divine Plea.

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BoW is a buff, imp BoW should be about improving the buff, not improving the paladin.

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Q u o t e:
They're certainly not going to nerf DPS casters mana regen *at all* because to do so would make them unable to compete with other classes that have infinite resources.

Once again the game is balanced on the backs of healers, which is poor design, but hey at least I'm Shadow now.

PS. You guys should do something about the mana regen system, and do something to make mp5 better - it's currently a trash stat.

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Same, well atleast until I see what the next patch brings.

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Q u o t e:
I'm more likely to suspect they will do something to replenishment.

Mana certainly becomes more of an issue when there is no replenishment in the group.

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That's the whole issue. Having and not having Replenishment is too big of a gap at this moment. Not to mention that everyone stack INT for Replenishement now.

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Q u o t e:
I would like to see spirit buffed and replenishment nerfed. I hate how in a raid I have infinite mana, but anywhere else my regen is %*#%.

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Definitely agreed. I stopped playing Resto because my regen was so horrible without replenishment.