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Q u o t e:



Now, MM spec. Its NOWHERE near ok. MM mana efficiency is terrible, and has been since beta. the MM tree is full of wasteful , useless talents and needs to be looked at. I honestly hope blizz takes a look at the numbers with SV as well as other classes are still beating hunters on the dmg meters. The SV tree is still lacking from beta, and has multiple talents that contradict others. There is a LONG way to go to get some semblance of balance within the hunter trees. i truly hope the devs understand that.

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I wholely agree with this statement - I am highly concerned by the way GC worded his comments in that they want to bring SV in line with MM. The wording is stated in such a way to leave the "idea" that they will be reigning in other classes. But in all honesty I don't see that as likely - and it makes it sound as if the devs believe MM is where hunters should be in terms of DPS output. That would be a huge disconnect with what is happening in terms of dps differentials of other pure classes and hybrids in raid output.

I am glad to see that they admit a mistake, but hopefully as someone says they will look at their processes. This whole situation could have been handled better, even if their intention was to shift the population of specs. The manner in which it was handled was sloppy. And giving the benefit of the doubt I will accept GC claiming that their internal numbers didn't match the communities numbers which had been talked and out there for a long time pre-patch. Hopefully they learn to accept that the community doesnt just say some of these things for no good reason...

Thank you.

Please don't touch the speed bonus of SS. I really just ADORE that talent.

Perhaps kindred spirits giving a hunter damage boost, even a small one, would help. The problem with the BM build that I'm seeing is that we don't have a shot. We have an ability that can go off every minute and a half with proper talenting but it's nothing we can put into a rotation. "Oh, it's up," is the extent of TBW.

Could we have a shot, maybe? I don't know how much time you need to do things like that, but if you want us to have more to do, a class specific shot to weave in would be lovely.

I'm glad you are fixing BM, but please don't nerf Surv. It really is much harder to play and STILL is not one of the top damage specs.

With all due respect, I do feel like a yo-yo with all this, but thanks for admitting a mistake was made.

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Q u o t e:
...
Again, huge caveats: Predicting changes we are discussing making but haven't made yet is fraught with peril. I only wanted to address this issue because it caused a lot of consternation in the community.

I don't mind admitting when we make a mistake in the hope that it builds our credibility in the community. This was one. It won't be the last. :)

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A) You manned up and admitted there was a mistake , good for you!
B) They plan on fixing it before 3.1, good for us
C) You used the word consternation , which you kids out there should remember if you ever have c-n-t-s-e-o-r in your rack in scrabble and someone lays down "nation" near a triple word score.

I officially take back all the exceedingly bad things I secretly wished would happen to you involving a rabid squirrel in your pants.

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Q u o t e:


A) You manned up and admitted there was a mistake , good for you!
B) They plan on fixing it before 3.1, good for us
C) You used the word consternation , which you kids out there should remember if you ever have c-n-t-s-e-o-r in your rack in scrabble and someone lays down "nation" near a triple word score.

I officially take back all the exceedingly bad things I secretly wished would happen to you involving a rabid squirrel in your pants.

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I was thinking a box of one dozen starving, crazed weasels. But that's just me.

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Q u o t e:

I don't mind admitting when we make a mistake in the hope that it builds our credibility in the community. This was one. It won't be the last. :)

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Good to hear, and it does indeed build credibility. By the way, good hunters agree that SV is fine =P

So another hunter nerf incoming. But since you threw BM a bone nobody cares that they will be last of the pure dpsers when you bring SV down to MM level

Nicely done sir, well played.

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Q u o t e:
We talked about it a great deal today and agreed that we probably over-nerfed BM. Marks is in a good spot and Survival might be too high once we look at the changes we are making to all other classes.

Our plan is to buff BM before Ulduar, but I can't give you a timetable more detailed than that, and things could change for any number of reasons. We are unlikely to touch Steady Shot for the reasons I have mentioned before. We are more likely to look at Kindred Spirits and Serpents Swiftness again.

Again, huge caveats: Predicting changes we are discussing making but haven't made yet is fraught with peril. I only wanted to address this issue because it caused a lot of consternation in the community.

I don't mind admitting when we make a mistake in the hope that it builds our credibility in the community. This was one. It won't be the last. :)

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Good to hear, actually survival is seriously not too high, its just where it should be, marks need a buff to match up survival, so BM do, and everything will be fine. If they nerf surv to equal marks and buff BM to match marks, everything will suck.

Funny.... and I remember when Hunter was one hell of a utility class.. You know back when it was impressive if they were on a top dps chart, but not really expected because they just rocked the party with a bunch of other uses?

Funny how diverse, but non-diverse things are now. You're either a Tank, DPS, or Healer. You no longer play the buffer class, the oh $#it button class, the mana battery, or anything actually diverse anymore. Just 3 different categories now.

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Q u o t e:
We talked about it a great deal today and agreed that we probably over-nerfed BM. Marks is in a good spot and Survival might be too high once we look at the changes we are making to all other classes.

Our plan is to buff BM before Ulduar, but I can't give you a timetable more detailed than that, and things could change for any number of reasons. We are unlikely to touch Steady Shot for the reasons I have mentioned before. We are more likely to look at Kindred Spirits and Serpents Swiftness again.

Again, huge caveats: Predicting changes we are discussing making but haven't made yet is fraught with peril. I only wanted to address this issue because it caused a lot of consternation in the community.

I don't mind admitting when we make a mistake in the hope that it builds our credibility in the community. This was one. It won't be the last. :)

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GC, How about making the BM 51 pt talent actually worth taking? I would rather have more pet stuff since I am bm or a shot related to my pet.

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Q u o t e:

Marks is in a good spot and Survival might be too high once we look at the changes we are making to all other classes.

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GC, I think you really have to give more weight to what the community is saying. SV damage/DPS is fine as is, and should not be touched. MM definitely need a small bump. There was nothing wrong with MM DPS prior to the 3.08 patch, until Steady Shot was nerfed. The Steady Shot nerf was what hurt MM the most. MM needs something to replace that nerf. Maybe allow more % of AP to influence Arcane Shot more, this will also benefit BM also ... which you state you guys will bring BM DPS back up.

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Q u o t e:


GC, I think you really have to give more weight to what the community is saying. SV damage/DPS is fine as is, and should not be touched. MM definitely need a small bump. There was nothing wrong with MM DPS prior to the 3.08 patch, until Steady Shot was nerfed. The Steady Shot nerf was what hurt MM the most. MM needs something to replace that nerf. Maybe allow more % of AP to influence Arcane Shot more, this will also benefit BM also ... which you state you guys will bring BM DPS back up.

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Read between the lines- he's saying that overall damage is too high from the highest DPS classes, including SV hunters. If other classes were doing the same damage as MM, then we'd all agree SV damage is too high. If they can manage to bring the outliers down to MM level, then it seems fair that SV should be brought down too.

If I'm mistaken and GC believes that MM is doing competitive damage to other classes- well that's wrong. But that's not what I'm getting from what he's saying.

If they do wind up changing Survival dps to fit the other two trees by lowering Explosive Shot's damage, I hope they fix the resilience thing on it.

I think one way to increase MM DPS would to just add in some sort of mana regen.

I think it would help BM also.

AoTV is nice, but it hurts our DPS pretty bad when we have to use it so often. I think Survival really showed how well we can DPS given a solid length of time to do so. I think both MM and BM should have similar mana regenning abilities so that you still go down decently fast in regular PvE, but you're really helped out in raids groups where your mana regen is maximized with buffs.

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Q u o t e:
I think one way to increase MM DPS would to just add in some sort of mana regen.

I think it would help BM also.

AoTV is nice, but it hurts our DPS pretty bad when we have to use it so often. I think Survival really showed how well we can DPS given a solid length of time to do so. I think both MM and BM should have similar mana regenning abilities so that you still go down decently fast in regular PvE, but you're really helped out in raids groups where your mana regen is maximized with buffs.

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Make those mana regens self only and with the same percentage then. Part of Survival is the ability to regen the raid's mana.