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Q u o t e:
Adapt and move on.

It'll all change in 3.1

Adapt and move on.

It'll all change in 3.1

Adapt and move on.

It'll all change in 3.1

How much does it take to get through to you people?

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We are looking for solutions here, please dont add to the problem.

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Q u o t e:


Don't be too aggressive. The OP got tamp banned. Watch out... GC has an itchy ban hammer. :P

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I hear you, however, that response was directed at the hunter (unless the hammer deals collateral damage).

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Q u o t e:
BM is an easier spec to play. We tend to reward specs that are a little tougher to play if played very well with higher dps. Affliction and Mutilate are good examples, though we went overboard with Mutilate's dominance over other specs. If BM was simpler and provided the same or higher dps, then you would see 95% BM hunters (which, no suprise, is exactly what we had). Some players will try SV or MM, decide it's not for them and go back to BM. If they couldn't make SV work, then their dps may be just fine as BM (or else the drop will be so low that they don't care). At issue is how much lower BM can be than MM and SV before it isn't worth spec'ing into. Combat for rogues is too far below Assassination so that you take too big a hit if you choose to opt out of the more demanding Mutilate play style. Make sense?

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Excuse me?

Please tell me I did not just read BM hunters were nerfed down to sub-hybrid DPS because the spec was deemed too easy to play.

Whats the difference between BM, MM, and SV? Exactly what is the difference?

ONE SHOT.

Ya thats right MM and SV have access to ONE more shot then does BM.

So complicating your shot rotation by ONE more shot means you are deemed worthy of more DPS?

Its not the BM hunters fault you made the design decision to give them novelty pets and not a BM specific shot. Its not the BM hunters fault that you decided the best mechanic to improving their DPS was to invest so many of their talents into simply scaling their pet damage. Its not the BM hunters fault you gave them Reduced Beastial Wrath Cooldown talents and not a talent like LnL that would complicate their shot rotations.

You seem adamant that the community provide you with empirical evidence that BM and MM cannot compete adequately with SV. I challenge you to prove empirically that its easier to play BM then it is SV.

Its subjective.

1) Is it more difficult to train yourself to hit a specific set of buttons in a certain pattern?

2) Is it more difficult to train yourself to hit a specific set of buttons in a specific pattern and change the pattern once every 40 seconds on average when LnL procs from serpent sting?

3) Is it more difficult to stand near enough to the target that once every 30 seconds you can interrupt hitting a specific set of buttons in a specific pattern to drop a trap and force a proc which requires you to hit another specific set of buttons?

4) Is it more difficult to train yourself to hit a specific set of buttons in a specific pattern including one special button every 10th second?

On a fight such as patchwerk 1 may be easier.

What about a fight like Sartherion when you inculde pet managment? Is it any easier to do the above and keep your pet alive when you know your pet is a minor portion of your DPS? Does knowing you must keep your pet alive to contribute to your full potential make the fight more difficult?

What happens when your pet dies? Is it more diffucult to decide to rez or not rez as MM and SV then BM?

Its subjective.

To say BM deserves to do 2/3 the DPS of the other specs because of a subjective measure is a cop out. If thats why you nerfed BM into the ground then you need to revisit the decision to make their 51 point talent a cosmetic feature and replace it with a new beast mastery only shot.

To be honest, I'd just really like to see MM a good pve dps spec. It has been a peice of !!*% since BC hit. In classic it was the bees knees I'd like to see that again.

I'm currently leveling a hunter despite all the hardcore nerfs when I get to 80 I'll hopefully be able to contribute to giving GC some data to work with.

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Q u o t e:


I’m telling you that nearly every hunter was BM. You can say that all the specs were viable before the recent patch, but the fact is that very few players were trying the others, especially Survival.

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Just so I am clear. So the nerf WAS intended to force people out of the BM spec because you felt that MM and SV were not being utilized?

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Q u o t e:
Okay, but if you have posted the numbers to death already and don’t want to post any more, what exactly is the purpose of constantly launching new threads on the topic? I hope it isn't just to get a blue response. Flooding the forums with the same topic is just going to make it harder for anyone to find information.

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I think that the reason people are constantly launching new threads is because yes, they want a response -- in particular, they want a specific response, which is to hear "Sorry, we messed up, we acknowledge that BM's numbers are pretty bad and MM isn't much better. We'll fix it."

Of course, that might not be the response they get, but "No, BM and MM's numbers are fine, and here's why your numbers look bad" would also suffice. The point is, the vast majority of hunters now perceive BM and MM as being far too weak, and they want some sort of acknowledgment that they won't be ignored and left far too weak for years like some other classes' specs have been.

Ok GC, working on numbers is your job.
Now stop the QQ and go fix it!

MUWHAHAHA I FEEL SO NORMAL

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Q u o t e:



This is the kind of ignorance that irritates me, How exactly is BM easier? SV and BM have almost the same DPS rotation. you replace explosive shot with Arcane shot. The only difference is if your pet dies as BM you are screwed and with survival its a minor annoyance.

To see this type of ignorance from a blizzard developer is annoying. This perception that BM is easier on the boards and i am glad you adopted it into your thinking. I am really beginning to believe there is no Dev that plays a Hunter with the ignorance that was posted in that message.

oh wait its must takes more skill to hit explosive shot than Arcane shot. The only difference is the dps is split more evenly between the hunter and the pet. The sequence of user input is the same, so how exactly is BM the easier spec.

Let me guess do you think we still spam one macro too? Are you gonna come on here and say LOL one button spammer! With comments like this from people who are suppose to be developing the game, i can see how things are gonna turn out.

Still in shock such ignorance came from someone who develops the game. Looks like that internet College degree can get you a job at blizzard.

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And this is the kind of ignorance that GC hates. BM rotation = steady shot, aside from steady shot you had to keep your pet alive.

as MM you'll be watching serpent sting, aimed shot, making sure their on the boss and also rotating arcane shot in with steady shot while all other shot are on CD.

Don't know much about SV yet so I can't really comment there. But annalyzing BM so hard just to show that by some crazy measure BM was difficult to play is just ignorant in it self.

Any decent hunter will agree BM was EZ mode to play. And other specs (MM) have a lot more intricate rotations in them self's along with other things.

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Q u o t e:

a BM player who did nothing but Steady Shot and use the pet could still do very high dps, which is not what we want.

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Which you guys did exactly with Survival.

Spamming Steady -> Steady and Explosive
Managing your pet with cooldowns -> Trap Dancing

Now you don't have to worry about a pet with horrible AI. If it dies, you still keep all your damage.

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Q u o t e:
I think some of my Ulduar comments have been taken out of context or misunderstood. We are making some changes to hunters. Some of them are pretty cool. We will have to rebalance many of the attacks at that time. For example, we are likely to add additional pet talents that increase dps so that the 4 bonus points from BM 51 will inflate player dps overall.

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I'm actually worried to see what happens now in Ulduar.

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Q u o t e:

I’m telling you that nearly every hunter was BM. You can say that all the specs were viable before the recent patch, but the fact is that very few players were trying the others, especially Survival.

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Every spec but surv was viable before the patch because explosive shot was a rolling JOKE.
AND things besides 50/21 would have been viable if you had just made it so readiness didn't affect Beastial Wrath in the first place.


HOWEVER: the state of things now is such:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/hnt/6/0

Look at ALL of these meters, and tell me that Surv isn't the only viable spec now. They completely eclipse (in 90% of the cases) every other spec. Look at it. LOOOK AT THE DATA!

You'll see how few a % Steadyshot is of their damage and what a WTF LARGE portion explosive shot is.

If its going to do THAT much damage, you have to remove it from L&L (thus killing the talent).

Furthermore, if you look at the DATES of the reports for each character, you'll notice that most of the BM reports are form the BROKEN 50/21 era of pre-3.0.8, thus your patch's hunter changes just changed the name of the game from "Broken BM" to "LolSurv"

Thanks,

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Q u o t e:
The problem was that for a long time BM was the only PvE spec and it had increasingly become the leveling and PvP spec too.

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I understand why it would be a concern that the majority of a class feels compelled to use a specific spec for a wide variety of different situations... but what do you mean "for a long time?"

There were people raiding as SV and MM specs in BC (even if only for the raid buffs), and LK only came out a few months ago.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see that your intention was to try to balance the diverse specs to make the player's choice of how to customize their toon more flexible, but from my experience, and from the experience of many of the others posting here, it seems that the changes were too dramatic, and you may have created a situation where rather than 95% of hunters being BM, 95% of hunters will be SV, and that doesn't fix the problem you were trying to fix, it just replaces it with another problem.





I would have thought that even after some BM nerfs you could leave BM as the highest DPS for standing fights (i.e., Patchwerk, et al.), and buffed the SV and MM only shots, giving players in those specs more mobile damage (instant), making them more attractive for mobile PvE and PvP...


I wish I had numbers for you.