We have been the worst dps spec for locks forever, and with WoTLK we became abysmal. I know the changes for Destro are very nice and im happy for them, but really why do we have to wait atleast another couple months for demo to even compete for a spot on a raid? The only raid buff we can even bring is demonic pact and its worthless compared to a shamans totem. So really what does Demo offer a raiding guild at all?

big healthstones

I am jealous. I stand next to a mage in a raid, and all of a sudden, there are FOUR of him. I am like, "that is soooo cool.". Then, I think, I should do my really cool thing.. oh wait, I don't have a really cool thing to do because I am Destro specced :( Maybe I should spec Meta, but then I would do not so great damage. A trade off I can't make.

Granted, your damage isn't all that great in comparison to the other 2 specs, but you get to be a big purple demon and I get to keep using incinerate :(

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Q u o t e:
We think we improve Demo mostly by improving demons, which unfortunately takes a little more work. That's not the only thing we want to do, by the way, but it's certainly part of it.

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Makes sense, since on PTR , demons got a very significant buff to their base dmg.

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Q u o t e:
We think we improve Demo mostly by improving demons, which unfortunately takes a little more work. That's not the only thing we want to do, by the way, but it's certainly part of it.

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Maybe we could see Meta. become something like Shadowform? That would grant the lock SOME bonuses and added survivability, but would keep them from relying on their "30s of god mode" to do damage or stay alive.

Please note that "god mode" is in quotes for a reason. Its not overpowered even in its current state, because a well timed stun still results in a Warlock with a vastly reduced HP pool.

You use the improved demonology talents...you know

Improved demonic teleport
Improved soul stone
Improved felguard
Improved healthstone
Improved spellstone

oh wait, only 2 of those.

Well you can look cool while doing so so damage.

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Q u o t e:


Maybe we could see Meta. become something like Shadowform? That would grant the lock SOME bonuses and added survivability, but would keep them from relying on their "30s of god mode" to do damage or stay alive.

Please note that "god mode" is in quotes for a reason. Its not overpowered even in its current state, because a well timed stun still results in a Warlock with a vastly reduced HP pool.

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I think that idea was frowned upon because it would make Warlocks just another Spriest / Lazerchicken.

I do think for what it does, it's pretty useless though. It's not hard at all to completely CC a Warlock in Demon Form, for the duration.

Think Paladin Turn, instant with glyph. Then the CC train that comes after you hit DR.

Immune to Fear and Banish while in Demon Form would go a long long way in making the talent less of a liability.

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Q u o t e:
We think we improve Demo mostly by improving demons, which unfortunately takes a little more work. That's not the only thing we want to do, by the way, but it's certainly part of it.

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What do you guys do all day any way? lol......... the spec for pve dps is horrible atm and locks arent exactly good in pvp right now ether. What have you got to lose by jumping in?

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Q u o t e:


What do you guys do all day any way? lol......... the spec for pve dps is horrible atm and locks arent exactly good in pvp right now ether. What have you got to lose by jumping in?

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Haven't you heard, they're going to nerf the OP classes first and THEN take a look at warlocks.

Then they'll check to see how resilience scales with our piss poor class and THEN take a look at warlocks.

The point is, they simply don't have the motivation to actually buff people who need it and nerf people who need it.

It's nice to hear that pets are being looked at.


The voidwalker and succubus need to be rebuilt. The imp can be made nice. Hell, he can pull a good 700-800dps for me as full destro. The felguard is likewise viable for raiding.

Currently, all pets are useless in PvP.


Pets need some form of defensive scaling at least. My voidwalker has 5k more hps more than he did when I hit 80. However, his threat and mitigation simply haven't changed. Same goes with all warlock pets.

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Q u o t e:


Haven't you heard, they're going to nerf the OP classes first and THEN take a look at warlocks.

Then they'll check to see how resilience scales with our piss poor class and THEN take a look at warlocks.

The point is, they simply don't have the motivation to actually buff people who need it and nerf people who need it.

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haha this made me laugh.

ridicules that mages get more buffs this up coming patch than locks.

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Q u o t e:
We think we improve Demo mostly by improving demons, which unfortunately takes a little more work. That's not the only thing we want to do, by the way, but it's certainly part of it.

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Wouldnt a quick fix like giving demonic pact atleast a selfless buffer of like 1% increased damage for the warlock and pet per rank help? Which im pretty sure would still put us far behind the other specs, but would alteast help. Also a new ability for the felguard would be nice since we didnt even get anything new in the expansion as far as pets go in Demo. Even just a stacking bleed effect or sunder would be nice.

I realize the base damage got buffed on PTR Ewinessa which i agree is nice.

I don't get this at all to be honest. Demo has the highest survivability of any warlock spec, why should it be competitive in damage? How many mages do you see whining, "for years now frost has been the worst pve spec, why can't frost get some buffs so a frost mage can compete for raid spots?"

Why should all 3 warlock specs be equally or nearly equally good for pve? I thought the point of specs is that you are supposed to be making tradeoffs between damage, survivability, and utility.

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Q u o t e:

Why should all 3 warlock specs be equally or nearly equally good for pve? I thought the point of specs is that you are supposed to be making tradeoffs between damage, survivability, and utility.

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Actually, the trouble with demonology is that it doesn't have the survivability it advertises. The only benefit it gives is +600% armor. My warlock has 2000ish armor.. so I wind up with about 12000 armor. It's barely noticeable.

Meanwhile, it makes you susceptible to CC like banish, and paladin's turn undead (which can't be dispelled or will of the forsaken'd out of, by the way) -- and seeing as how 20% of the players in arena are paladins, it is not a wise choice to go most of the time. Destruction is much better for survivability, with nether protection and AE stun on a moderate cooldown.

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Q u o t e:
I don't get this at all to be honest. Demo has the highest survivability of any warlock spec, why should it be competitive in damage? How many mages do you see whining, "for years now frost has been the worst pve spec, why can't frost get some buffs so a frost mage can compete for raid spots?"

Why should all 3 warlock specs be equally or nearly equally good for pve? I thought the point of specs is that you are supposed to be making tradeoffs between damage, survivability, and utility.

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No actually you can argue with the health returns offered by affliction and the magic protection via destruction offer the same amount of protection, if not more then demonology. Fact is Illidan form for 30 seconds with a charge offers little in the way of survivability, at 800 res and rogues still eat through that in no time. I think most locks are concerned about the PVE damage loss anyhow, where it's survivability factor is of no consequences if a mob/boss is on you. In a nutshell let's not use the past as an example for the future, lest there comes a day where the same example is used on you.

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Q u o t e:
We think we improve Demo mostly by improving demons, which unfortunately takes a little more work. That's not the only thing we want to do, by the way, but it's certainly part of it.

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You're improving demons?
REALLY?! =D
It'll probably be a bigger deal for Demo than the rest of us, but hey, better demons are good for all three trees.

Question though. "A little more work" meaning not yet ready but you don't want to delay it til the Ulduar patch, or it's hard to the point of having to wait til the Ulduar patch?

A little more time to tinker so it's ready to roll is one thing, but I think as a community we would encourage you to challenge your team to roll up your collective sleeves and find a way to get this done in time for 3.0.8. The demons really are that big of a deal to all of us. I can understand that might be hard for you to do, and it might be too hard for the likes of Funcom or Mythic, but you're Blizzard Entertainment, home of arguably the best design teams in the free world. Make it go, we know you can. :)

Demo is just too passive. Some active abilities and maybe an extra ability on FG would be nice buffs but I think pets should scale with the masters survivability with every spec. Our pets are far too squishee to last in PvP.

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Q u o t e:
We think we improve Demo mostly by improving demons, which unfortunately takes a little more work. That's not the only thing we want to do, by the way, but it's certainly part of it.

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Permanent Doomguard? gogo a pet that has a nice debuff being out more then 15 minutes on the hour (assuming it doesn't, you know, die). Doomguards are nice, give them some nice demo buffs, take off the 15/60 minute restrictions and replace it with the fire/spellstone points somewhere down the tree :-D

<3 cripple

OR maybe a new demon altogether? I was surprised we didn't get one with Wrath anyway to be perfectly honest...