@ the OP:

Druids have to be feral.
Paladins have to be prot.
Why should warriors get 3 trees to tank with? Even DKs are limited to Unholy and Frost atm which with the incoming Unholy nerfs just might take it to only Frost (haven't researched yet".

I respec about 4-6 times a week. I know others spec more and others spec less, but this is my average. So lets take the worst case scenario and say 6 which is 300g. Now this is only from pve. I often tank 10 mans and 25 mans unless we have other tanks on then i gladly spec kitty to allow them to raid as well (being a raid leader I choose who sits so if i didn't respec then other tanks get shafted).

Now, once dual spec hits I will actually be hitting the arena more. Which means yet another 3-4 respecs each week. So just because you want to do everything possible in 1 spec and suck at it doesn't mean that other players do as well. For every class, their pve and pvp specs are different. Anyone who tries to hybrid a pve/pvp spec will only suck at both. Anyone who raids pve as a pvp spec will hinder the raid and in my guild will not get a raid invite at all.

With the Dual Spec system, people are going to be able to switch on the fly for pve bosses and even for some be able to save gold when they wanna do arenas on off-days.

To sum it all up, don't QQ cause you want to be the fail warrior.

OP:
Dual spec will be available for *all* classes, not only the hybrids, and will affect *everyone*.
Ever thought how useful dual spec will be for pallies, druids and shamans? The amount of gold we spend respeccing is obscene. All classes will benefit from it really, like rogues, for instance, respeccing back and forth sub-muti (or combat or whatever).
Now, discussing how warriors and their tankable specs are viable beyond 5-men content is an altogether different discussion.

Actually, I think the whole notion of classes should be done away with completely. When you roll a new character, you should simply be listed as a Symbiotic Organism. There would be three talent trees, aptly named "Heals", "Tank", and "DPS".

There would be 3 skills in the game, also named "Heals", "Tank", and "DPS". Each organism would mash either 1 (heals), 2 (tank), or 3 (DPS). Content would not be able to handle the pure fluidity and we could all face roll ourselves to free purples on a daily basis.

Loot would not be given all the fancy names they have today. If item dropped it would simply be called "Healing chestpiece" or "DPS Gloves". This would further negate the necessity for thinking about who should get what.

OP: You need to re-evaluate the usefulness of dual specs.

Blizzard: Don't listen to OP, please put dual specs on rush order.

Arms and Fury Warriors: You better be crit immune, in defensive stance, and using a shield if you ever hope to tank ANYTHING besides a 5 man pug. The community as a whole does not buy into Arms and Fury tanking. Live with it, it is not Blizzard's fault. Blizzard can't force a change of the communities mind. Sorry.

Poster directly above me: LOVE IT!

Blizzard didn't say all forms of warriors/paladins/druids can tank as well as a prot/feral warrior/paladin/druid they said they can tank just not as well.

I'm glad to see the flames aren't as hot on the WoW forums these days. Thank you for keeping your posts a little more flame-free, it means a lot to be able to discuss idea's more clearly.

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Q u o t e:
The point is, I don’t want to switch my spec AT ALL.

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Q u o t e:
so you want to be just as good a full tank specced warrior, yet get all the perks of the dps tree to...sorry but that honestly doesnt make sense if you step back and think about it for a second. sounds more like your saying "waa im lazy, i want to do l33t dps and tanking without having to spend gold"

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Well to me it makes perfect sense because I'm looking at it from this view. A warrior has 2 jobs, tanking and dps'ing. They can do both of these things by being a warrior but they have to run through a few hoops first. One of them is collecting the gear which is by far the hardest, the other is the gold requirement to respec which isn't so bad if you have no life and do dailies every day, and the last is skill which can be learned through experience. There you have it. One class that can do 2 jobs, you just have to waste time to run through the hoops to do it.

I'm tired of the hoops, I thought Blizz was going in a direction to get rid of them. It all started when we could tank 5-mans, I thought it was going to keep progressing untill you had atleast for warriors 2 additional tank types. I thought one would use bleed-damage to hold aggro like bears, I thought the other would use ...well I have no idea what fury would do at all, and yea....thats what I thought. The majority believes I am wrong, this may be, and I don't really mind. I just want to hear blizzard say I am wrong.
I like to hear it directly from the source, I am sorry I cannot trust you all. Maybe they wont answer my thread directly, but, i'll keep reading blue's responces to find out.

When you look at it from my point of view the only restriction you have right now is class. Noooo you can't heal, warriors, you'd have to roll a paly, then you can tank heal and dps. But as it stands right now I can tank and dps. I have the skill and gear required to do so ... i just don't want to run through the waste of time and money to do it. I want to click a button on my screen to change my gear and be able to main-tank arthas.
if this is so absurd maybe for the sake of the traditional people we could change the names of our tree's..

Arms, Fury, Protection = Arms, Fury, Shield Bearer
Elemental, Enhancement, Restoration = Elemental, Enhancement, Ancestry
and so on.

Again folks, this is what my mind came up with when I heard blizz was giving just arms and fury more abilities to tank. And it almost made it concrete when I looked at paladins healing tallents that were odly placed in ret and prot. 30% effect from crit heals with prot paladins, a HoT from Ret paladins.

I must admit there are a lot of people disagreeing with everything I am saying but there is a reason why I think this way. I truly believed that from what I have been seeing change in the tree's as far as tanking and healing goes I thought blizzard was starting to open up and expand upon each tree being able to do the 2 or 3 jobs required of the class (differently but still viable) in order to answer the many people who are tired of the gold costs of the almighty respec.

Right now, with enough time and money you can do what it takes in order to do any job with your class. Nobody can tell me I am wrong there I'm afraid. To what extent is blizzard going to make it less painful to 'make the switch' is I guess what I want to know.
Dual spec is definitely an answer, i'm not going to disagree with that.
But I thought it would be (personally) incredibly fun to see NEW tanks step in, and not just DK's being the only new tanking character. I thought it would be awesome to see an Arms tank or a Ret paladin come into to maintank. We were all excited to hear that DK's will be tanking with 2-handers. Thats something unheard of. I am completely sure there were a few arms and fury warriors going 'eh?' well if they can tank without a shield how come I can't?
-shrugs-
I think its definitely possible to do things from what I view. Is it going to happen? I don't really know, and the majority, again, is believing that the reality that I was mislead to believe will definitely NOT be implemented.

btw a rogue has 1 job who cares what spec they are.

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Q u o t e:
Actually, I think the whole notion of classes should be done away with completely. When you roll a new character, you should simply be listed as a Symbiotic Organism. There would be three talent trees, aptly named "Heals", "Tank", and "DPS".

There would be 3 skills in the game, also named "Heals", "Tank", and "DPS". Each organism would mash either 1 (heals), 2 (tank), or 3 (DPS). Content would not be able to handle the pure fluidity and we could all face roll ourselves to free purples on a daily basis.

Loot would not be given all the fancy names they have today. If item dropped it would simply be called "Healing chestpiece" or "DPS Gloves". This would further negate the necessity for thinking about who should get what.

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Female...Troll...Tank...must..obey...*twitch*

((Also, lovin' the snark))

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Q u o t e:
I do not like the idea of dual specs. I don’t like it because it’s a way of saying “you can’t tank unless you spec protection.” I find this incredibly disturbing because when WoTLK came out and the talent tree’s got a face-lift I read that even arms and fury could tank! That meant a lot to me. That meant instead of people criticizing my spec as I tanked, I could have my DPS spec AND TANK JUST AS GOOD AS ANYONE ELSE. And that Prot would be JUST LIKE arms or fury in that it did DPS just as well but in a slightly different way. I wanted to see Prot warriors rolling on DPS one-handers and Fury and Arms warriors rolling on two-handers.

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If this was the case, I'd be more than happy. Back in BC, I tanked heroics as Ret wearing prot gear. I would absolutely love to be able to tank dk-style with a two-hander as a ret paladin. Unfortunately, this isn't the design in Wrath. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in the next expansion; GC mentioned this design as a good idea.

However, dual-spec is more than just tank/dps. It's also for tank/heal, heal/dps, dps/heal, and for the rest: pve/pvp.

Oh hi GC.

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Q u o t e:
If this was the case, I'd be more than happy. Back in BC, I tanked heroics as Ret wearing prot gear. I would absolutely love to be able to tank dk-style with a two-hander as a ret paladin. Unfortunately, this isn't the design in Wrath. I wouldn't be surprised to see this in the next expansion; GC mentioned this design as a good idea.

However, dual-spec is more than just tank/dps. It's also for tank/heal, heal/dps, dps/heal, and for the rest: pve/pvp.

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GC mentioned this design as a good idea? huh... Well it could also mean that blizzard realizes how much work that will take and just can't address this as fast as we want. doing dual spec might just be what they 'can do now' in order to give tank/healer/dps a way to switch around easier while they work.

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Q u o t e:
But I don't think this feature automatically locks us into Prot = tanking and Arms / Fury = dps if we don't want it to be. There is a risk that it allows us to be lazy: "Oh don't worry about making Frost mages PvE viable because they can always swap specs to Fire or Arcane for PvE." We would still like to get away from X being "the PvP tree" for every class. Likewise we'd like to get away from having tanking trees too, but it's harder or perhaps impossible for some classes.

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It would be excellent if every tanking tree could be sustainable in PVP.

Doing melee dps with no intellect and no judgements of the wise in arena is kind of absurd, sir.

Thanks for telling us it's a goal.

OP /reroll DK and leave the trees as they are. Each tree is unique to each play style and if you want to tank as Arm/Fury I just wish your healer luck and lots of it. Also dual spec is helpful for those who want to take a break from PvE and get a bit in to PvP on weekends for example. Maybe warrior is just not your class? Considered rolling paladin or druid or DK?

The tank shortage is not due to reason you stated but to other factors. One of them being bad group experiences so people crating cliques, inability to tank, time consuming, reflexes, etc.

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Q u o t e:
I don't like d uel spec for one reason, you know how HARD it is going to be gearing up your tank now that you gota roll against every Plate DPS on the planet who want's it for off spec!

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Main spec first still makes sense when dual spec comes out. You may be able to perform two roles without paying 50 gold, but you cannot perform two roles simultaneously, and one role should take precedence over the other.

Thank you for taking the time to read my topic, GC.

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Q u o t e:
We would still like to get away from X being "the PvP tree" for every class. Likewise we'd like to get away from having tanking trees too, but it's harder or perhaps impossible for some classes.

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I understand that some classes are more closer to being able to do some of the things i've listed, whereas say a resto druid is very far from being able to heal and tank (though they are closer to healing and dpsing with thunderbolts however, wink-nudge)

It seems, from your post, most of the thought right now is heavy on the pvp side. I see a general "Prot in PVP!" going around as topics a lot so it must be a main focus. Is my topic so rare that blizzard just hasn't put any time into it?
I have struggled my entire time playing my warrior with the issue of respeccing and not being able to stay as I am and be a unique tank.
Is there a future for the idea's and dreams I have?

Is there any way that I can concrete my beliefs that Arms can tank and dps just by going down the tree the whole way?
I'd like it if I could do what I am doing now and be called a good tank. Grabbing the good tallents in arms all the way to the end, then spiking with a little prot (incite and imp thunderclap) and having the ability to tank.

I see that your post is relatively light on concrete details, which I find actually kinda cute that you are thinking with me :3 , but, can I get some more thorough answers to my questions by chance?

Thank you so much.

EDIT*

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Q u o t e:
We can totally imagine a world in which Arms, Fury and Protection all can tank using different styles. The Prot tree would just be more about sword and board style than tanking per se. Perhaps an Arms warrior would tank with a two-hander more like a DK does. I'm not saying we will 100% for sure go down that road, but it is interesting idea to think about.

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Maybe i'm being way to greedy now that I got a blue post. I believe you did state what you needed to state, I just of course am hungry for more and more and more details.
Atleast you understand what I am getting at.

I would deeply appreciate it if you shared my idea with whatever team you have to and perhapse get back to me. I think you can get my e-mail through my account name somehow and keep me up to date.
Thank you.

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Q u o t e:
@ the OP:

Druids have to be feral.
Paladins have to be prot.
Why should warriors get 3 trees to tank with? Even DKs are limited to Unholy and Frost atm which with the incoming Unholy nerfs just might take it to only Frost (haven't researched yet".

I respec about 4-6 times a week. I know others spec more and others spec less, but this is my average. So lets take the worst case scenario and say 6 which is 300g. Now this is only from pve. I often tank 10 mans and 25 mans unless we have other tanks on then i gladly spec kitty to allow them to raid as well (being a raid leader I choose who sits so if i didn't respec then other tanks get shafted).

Now, once dual spec hits I will actually be hitting the arena more. Which means yet another 3-4 respecs each week. So just because you want to do everything possible in 1 spec and suck at it doesn't mean that other players do as well. For every class, their pve and pvp specs are different. Anyone who tries to hybrid a pve/pvp spec will only suck at both. Anyone who raids pve as a pvp spec will hinder the raid and in my guild will not get a raid invite at all.

With the Dual Spec system, people are going to be able to switch on the fly for pve bosses and even for some be able to save gold when they wanna do arenas on off-days.

To sum it all up, don't QQ cause you want to be the fail warrior.

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As it turns out, an Arms warrior can MT near as effectively as a Prot warrior in both 5 and 10 mans and make an excellent 25 man OT.

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Q u o t e:


As it turns out, an Arms warrior can MT near as effectively as a Prot warrior in both 5 and 10 mans and make an excellent 25 man OT.

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Yes, tanks can be carried. An arms warrior in tanking gear is easy to steal aggro from though, and drops like a rock in comparison to a prot warrior.

GC mentioned my primary concern with the dual spec system; That it may permit the development team to get lazy and simply see respecing as a solution to issues in a particular tree.

This impacts me particularly as I am one of those crazy people that irrationally cling to my side of the talent tree to the exclusion of all others.


edit: typo

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Q u o t e:
Yes, tanks can be carried. An arms warrior in tanking gear is easy to steal aggro from though, and drops like a rock in comparison to a prot warrior.

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how in the world can you say that? Have you looked at the tallent tree's?

rolling full arms and tanking you only have to worry about getting the right gear. I don't know what arms warrior you saw drop fast, but that guy must not have had crap for gear.
The tallents at the end of the prot tree are all about doing dmg and holding threat. The beginning of prot has all the tallents that help them stand longer.
It is definitely possible to grab bladestorm and then anticipation, shield mastery, and shield specialization 3 of the more important things.

full prot warriors just have a 30% chance to block for double the amount which by all means is a great tallent but it still isn't convincing enough to flat out say that with the best prot gear in the game an arms warrior who spikes to grab shield mastery, anticipation, and shield specialization is going to drop like a fly every time.

Its always been more about the gear, not the spec. its when you get to the itty bitty details that make people go "ok go prot because you are dying a little faster that one time an hour ago" and they still are annoying.