Other than the nerf to Deep Wounds, which is a blow to some of our dps?

Nothing regarding threat concerns
Nothing regarding lowest damage
Nothing regards to current standing on mitigation and health?

Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

Rage from parries and dodges please
Higher devastate damage
Review protecton warrior DPS
Review DW affect on protection warriors
Small TPS booster
Reduced heroic throw cooldown, talented or not

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Q u o t e:
Other than the nerf to Deep Wounds, which is a blow to some of our dps?

Nothing regarding threat concerns
Nothing regarding lowest damage
Nothing regards to current standing on mitigation and health?

Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

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Working as intended.

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Q u o t e:


Working as intended.

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Badely? I can believe that, sadly.

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Q u o t e:
Nothing regarding threat concerns

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Noone is actually losing threat yet.

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Q u o t e:
Nothing regarding lowest damage

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May be a concern. May be from too much gearing focusing on stamina.

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Q u o t e:
Nothing regards to current standing on mitigation and health?

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Is that even a warrior complaint? Warriors are pretty equivalent in this regard.

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Q u o t e:
Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

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Of course you do. Which do you find more convincing? Numbers or wild accusations that noone can agree upon.

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Q u o t e:
Other than the nerf to Deep Wounds, which is a blow to some of our dps?

Nothing regarding threat concerns
Nothing regarding lowest damage
Nothing regards to current standing on mitigation and health?

Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

---

Oh noes, I make better threat than DKs, have more health than paladins or DKs when completely stacked for effective health, and mitigate more damage than druids or DKs.

Clearly not being the best in these categories indicates that you are greatly lacking.

Then G.C. can post "no" and at least acknowledge theres pages of threads on these topics.

But I understand how you would want to keep a warrior down, being a pally and all.

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Q u o t e:

Noone is actually losing threat yet.

May be a concern. May be from too much gearing focusing on stamina.

Is that even a warrior complaint? Warriors are pretty equivalent in this regard.

Of course you do. Which do you find more convincing? Numbers or wild accusations that noone can agree upon.

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Wanna bet? Warlock and rogue in my guild can pull off any warrior tank, easily, if they go all out.

Exertise and stam, same as Paladins, and you still do more damage then me, even with deep wounds spec.

We don't have more mitigation or are even tied for mitigation in this area, when compared to paladins, who should be close to us in this area.

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Q u o t e:
Oh noes, I make better threat than DKs, have more health than paladins or DKs when completely stacked for effective health, and mitigate more damage than druids or DKs.

Clearly not being the best in these categories indicates that you are greatly lacking.

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and this is backed up by what? I'm glad you have an opinion, but that's all it is.

that said, i'll give you my opinion:

1 paladins have arguably the highest threat right now (even w/out the noted bugs, and DK's are generally considered to be lower)... but we're not talking about "threat" we're talking about DPS, which is more important in the current raid environment.

2 i'm glad you qualified your statement with "when stacked for effective health", because when DKs and paladins do the same thing, they get the same or higher levels. Oh! and paladins are getting a buff to that as well.

3 we mitigate damage better against faster, smaller hits from block. who does that better? Paladins.
as the hits get larger, DKs and Druids outpace us due to large armor values. the math on this has been done.

anything else you'd like to add?
hugs and kisses then...

pls review our damage.

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Q u o t e:
Then G.C. can post "no" and at least acknowledge theres pages of threads on these topics.

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Then only thing I see "pages of" are threads about BoSanc.

Maybe if more warriors would list issues that didn't revove around BoSanc, they would get responses that don't revolve around BoSanc.

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Q u o t e:
Other than the nerf to Deep Wounds, which is a blow to some of our dps?

Nothing regarding threat concerns
Nothing regarding lowest damage
Nothing regards to current standing on mitigation and health?

Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

---

People have a tendency to blame the design of the game rather than looking inward, because that would be inconvenient. Warrior threat in the current state of the game is absoultely not a concern for raiders, our mt is a warrior and keeps bosses in 5 mans, 10 mans and 25 mans off of me and my dps cohorts at all times. Myself and others in my guild are hitting for 4k+ and haven't had any trouble whatsoever with agro.

Realistically, you'll need to determine what rotation you're using and what you can do to move up the threat ladder. ...although I have a feeling that if you were to reply to this it would be a lot of 'I do it perfectly and the game is broken' rhetoric.

I think a big issue with Prot warrior damage is that they buffed boss armor by 10% a while back because rogues were doing too much DPS.


I cried when I read those notes (it was in Wrath-beta).


I think we are just feeling a lot of the whiplash of that boss-buff. It would be nice if there was a way around it, at least for tanks. Perhaps make the talent Puncture provide static armor penetration (a percentage of the mob's current level... and have it be a substantial one) on top of its current state.

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Q u o t e:
Wanna bet? Warlock and rogue in my guild can pull off any warrior tank, easily, if they go all out.

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The rogue's feint should make that statement impossible. And warlocks have high threat moves, so maybe they can pull mobs off if they are being a jerk about it.

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Q u o t e:
Exertise and stam, same as Paladins, and you still do more damage then me, even with deep wounds spec.

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Maybe that's the problem. You're trying to gear the same as a paladin when, you're not a paladin. You don't need to stack as much stam as a paladin to hit the same hp. Use the advantage to get some higher damage gear.

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Q u o t e:
We don't have more mitigation or are even tied for mitigation in this area, when compared to paladins, who should be close to us in this area.

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All mathematical testing I've seen states they are equivalent.

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Q u o t e:
Oh noes, I make better threat than DKs, have more health than paladins or DKs when completely stacked for effective health, and mitigate more damage than druids or DKs.

.

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DK made the bad list for everything.

yay >.>

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Q u o t e:
I think a big issue with Prot warrior damage is that they buffed boss armor by 10% a while back because rogues were doing too much DPS.


I cried when I read those notes (it was in Wrath-beta).


I think we are just feeling a lot of the whiplash of that boss-buff. It would be nice if there was a way around it, at least for tanks. Perhaps make the talent Puncture provide static armor penetration (a percentage of the mob's current level... and have it be a substantial one) on top of its current state.

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this is a very interesting point. Although i think this is a very good solution, we would need to move puncture down to further in the tree in order to avoid exploits from the dps trees. it also brings up the point that since devastate is such a small part of our rotation now that it feels very underpowered and isn't really worth using that much... which hurts our dps without the sunder applications. a buff to devastate would really help in terms of making it a viable part of our rotation and the increased effectiveness of sunder.

---

Q u o t e:
Other than the nerf to Deep Wounds, which is a blow to some of our dps?

Nothing regarding threat concerns
Nothing regarding lowest damage
Nothing regards to current standing on mitigation and health?

Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

---

Here's your blue. Here, I'll even highlight some of the relevant parts.

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Q u o t e:
The kind of feedback we're looking for:

-- I have trouble with getting away from melee in Arenas.
-- I don't like this talent This other talent is a much better expenditure of talent points.
-- I can't figure out a way to fit this spell in my rotation.
-- I find this mechanic confusing. (Or even, I love the way this works.)
-- Under these conditions, this spell behaves strangely.
-- This spell might be bugged.
-- My dps is low in this situation.
-- I don't want to use this item because it interferes with this mechanic.
-- I'm not having fun because of this reason. (Or even, I'm having fun for this reason.)

The kinds of feedback we're not interested in:

-- Blizzard hates my class.
-- Blizzard neglects my class.
-- GC never posts where I want him to post.
-- Blizzard's testing methodology is flawed.
-- I don't understand why Blizzard designed the class in this way.
-- Warlock tears nom nom nom.
-- Blizzard wants us all to reroll.
-- Blizzard has no idea what to do with my class.
-- Blizzard doesn't understand how the spells they designed work.
-- I am mad because you didn't use my idea.
-- Nobody at Blizzard plays my class.
-- Why won't you fix our problems?

It isn't 100% true, but often when you stop talking about WoW, the game, and start talking about Blizzard, the company or us as designers, you've crossed over.

Post on classes. If you have said everything you can say or have run out of ideas, then stop posting. We're tolerant of a certain amount of nonsense or offtopic-ness or even the occasional vent. This forum is not intended as a place to air your greivances. This forum is designed for intelligent discussion on class balance and mechanics.

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And as for your last line,

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Q u o t e:
Do we really need to start posting WWS's and Spreadsheets of numbers to get your attention, I'd hate to start doing that, it's a royal pain in the tail.

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The answer is yes, you do.

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Q u o t e:


Here's your blue. Here, I'll even highlight some of the relevant parts.



And as for your last line,



The answer is yes, you do.

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so instead of contributing to the discussion and bringing it more on course with what your post describes, you merely state why it was approached in the wrong way?

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Q u o t e:


so instead of contributing to the discussion and bringing it more on course with what your post describes, you merely state why it was approached in the wrong way?

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no, he was pointing out the way to properly bring to light the issues that the OP is claiming - with proof, not QQ.