GC, I understand that you are trying to cater to numerous warrior requests to base Arms dmg less on RNG and more on DMG abilities. However the new rage restriction on Sudden Death is a horribile attempt.

I don't understand how capping this abilities damage potential is going to make Arms PvP less RNG dependent. Is the plan to simply make the ability undesirable to use? Even with the rage cap on sudden death, it is still a RNG based talent. If you wanna eleminate some of the RNG associated with Sudden death, and give Arms warriors the damage boost they need in PvP, give sudden death a crit chance of 100%. It has gotten to the point of nessecity now. And with the rage cap, the dmg is still some what limited.

As it is right now, when I play any sort of PvP, i simply and trying to do 3 things as a warrior. Keep hamstring applied, Keep Mortal Strike applied, and wait for Sudden Death to proc. Thats it.

Sudden Death is the only ability that actually does considerable Damage. I have yet to see Mortal strike, Wirlwind, or any white swing, hit nearly as hard as they need to. Sudden Death on the other hand, is my saving grace. It determines the outcome of any fight i have 100%.

I hope that these are preleminary patch notes, and more are to follow. There are many suggestions out there for improving warrior damage, and survivability. I hope that we see some of those in the next round of updates to the next patch.

Taken away with nothing to replace it. Sure sudden death is effective against cloth but it's still pretty weak against plate, we're going to be worse against holy pallies and DK's now lol.

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Q u o t e:
It's RNG but it is less RNG. Now the damage won't be so crazy on some hits, but on the flip side your rage bar won't go to zero either so you can use it for other things.

Overall, this would still probably be a nerf to Arms, but as we are discussing in other threads, this is most likely not the only change.

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I wasn't rage starved in arenas because of sudden death... I was rage starved because of the bubbles, shields and CC. SD didn't help, but it wasn't the root of our rage starvation problems.

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Q u o t e:
It's RNG but it is less RNG. Now the damage won't be so crazy on some hits, but on the flip side your rage bar won't go to zero either so you can use it for other things.

Overall, this would still probably be a nerf to Arms, but as we are discussing in other threads, this is most likely not the only change.

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Okay Im not sure what numbers were talking but lets say we put it at 20% chance on hit? Ive seen a full rage bar hit for around 4200 non crit a number of times. So if you roughly do the math were talking about the new SD hitting as hard as MS it would seem? In the 3000-4000 rage on crits.

I kind of get the feeling my rage bar is going to be pegged at 100% for entire fights until I can do a real execute and reduce it to zero. I generate tons of rage, but don't have enough ways to use it.

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Q u o t e:
It's RNG but it is less RNG. Now the damage won't be so crazy on some hits, but on the flip side your rage bar won't go to zero either so you can use it for other things.

Overall, this would still probably be a nerf to Arms, but as we are discussing in other threads, this is most likely not the only change.

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Just the only one documented.

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Q u o t e:
It's RNG but it is less RNG. Now the damage won't be so crazy on some hits, but on the flip side your rage bar won't go to zero either so you can use it for other things.

Overall, this would still probably be a nerf to Arms, but as we are discussing in other threads, this is most likely not the only change.

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Wat other things?

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Q u o t e:
It's RNG but it is less RNG. Now the damage won't be so crazy on some hits, but on the flip side your rage bar won't go to zero either so you can use it for other things.

Overall, this would still probably be a nerf to Arms, but as we are discussing in other threads, this is most likely not the only change.

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Then why release it alone? If even you realize it's gonna be a nerf you shouldn't touch it untill you have your entire build for arms warriors in place. If this goes in now without anything else to make up for the loss it's like putting only part of a marinade on some chicken without the rest of the seasonings. How long will we have to just chew on a poorly flavored talent tree till you add what makes it taste good?!

Maybe it's part of your grand scheme of testing or wont make it to live just yet, if so I appologize for complaining. I just don't want to be stuck sucking for around a month or however long till you guys add the rest to make us viable. I can already tell you my PvE and PvP damage is going to suffer as a result of this. It's hard enough as is so I hope this won't go untouched for too long once it's in place.

Its almost insulting that you try to put a cute bow on this change to play it off like its not a nerf. Taking away the ability to control how hard your execute hits for is a nerf. There is no buffs about it.

If youre worried in PvP about rage, wait for your MS to come up, re-apply hamstring, then dump a SD into your target. In PvE, if youre worried about it not critting/rage, do one or two slams. Slam stops your swing timer, and if you are in decent 200/213 ilvl gear with 2-pc t7, slam is sometimes the best option (depending on tfb proc, rage, ms cd, etc.).

The most frustrating thing really is how much the warrior class has changed. I have a rank 12 shaman, a gladiator warlock(s2), warrior(s3+s4, when he was made), and shaman (s3+s4, when he hit 70). Warriors have always been the class that if you focus them, they do far more damage. Along with enrage being near negligable now and SD being nerfed, whatever reason there was not to be on the warrior is gone. This change is pretty much going to force warriors to go TG or play as a lackluster arms spec. TG has problems otuside of 2v2, because you should be in zerker. Getting on a TG warrior makes them either an extremely easy target, or makes their damage tank. Once shield wall is down, warriors also go down extremely quick. So much for being the true "tank" class. We are now one of the most squishy pvp targets, and now dont have anyway to discourage lolwarrior trains.

If you want warriors to succeed (http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player, warriors are constantly declining), buff rage generation. 3 out of 4 teams are probably going to have one paladin in it, and sacred shield is the biggest rage starvation tool I have ever seen. Fix this issue immediatly. Fix warriors mobility, or give them a better peel talent so we do not have to get Chains of Iced while a DK kills your healer. Or give warriors something to control the match more aside from facerolling and slamming MS over and over. Every class has something to slow down/discourage players. Warriors have a 3 minute fear. Im not saying warriors need CC, but they need some more utiltiy somewhere...a silence, more defensive survivability, another snare/stun break. They need something that makes them more mobile, more bursty/aggessive, or harder to kill Make warriors good at SOMETHING, rather than 2nd rate at EVERYTHING. Or even take away the healing debuff on mortal strike and put it on par with the other classes. If the healing debuff is holding back the class, re-work it.

Honestly, I dont mind if I do not have burst. Just give warriors SOMETHING that they can excel it. DKs right now have so much peel, amazing interrupts, great burst damage, good survivability (even post nerf), and so much control. Ret paladins can heal for crazy amounts for a hybird, imp HoJ is way too good, and their burst is extremely strong. If a rogue has prep, he can either have a weapon-chainless warrior stunned or disarmed for 32 seconds in a one minute fight. I cant even go into how much dismantle makes me rage. If it was the same as disarm, it would be ok. However, when I get dismantled, all I can do is face the rogue and hope for the best. Crip poison is too good, I cant trinket anything, otherwise Ill sit in a blind and hell re-open. If dismantle was JUST a weapon disarm, it would STILL be too good, but I could live with taht. Atleast when I am dismantled, I would ONLY lose offensive abilities, I do not lose offensive and defensive abilities.

Anyways, that probably was more of a PvP rant about rogues, but TLDR, give warriors SOMETHING that sets them apart. MS is simply now doing it in 2v2, and it is most definitely not requried in 3v3 or 5v5.

It's quite clear how Blizzard feels about RNG in arms PvP.

Mace Stun is bad.

Starfall/Starfire Stun is good!

Maybe when Balance druids get to be the cornerstone of most good arena teams, and thousands of them make gladiator, and millions of matches are won by Starfire Stun, then you can pretend there's some anti-warrior bias.

Yeah it's kinda the same category, so is Blackout, but welltimedmacestunbro was in a whole different ballpark on a different planet in a galaxy far far away. It was one of the most infuriating things in BC.

Seems to me that overall it's a good change, it would be hard to increase arms warrior damage in PVP without causing sudden death to create imbalanced burst potential, when i read that talent i knew it would be ridiculous.

Now that the talent is nerfed somewhat, Expect to see the possibility for changes in the tree to increase the effectiveness of arms via other routes.

Also take into account that Unholy DKs just got nerfed into the ground, Alls you need is ret paladins to go down some, and that would inherently make you a stronger PVP class.

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Q u o t e:
It's RNG but it is less RNG. Now the damage won't be so crazy on some hits, but on the flip side your rage bar won't go to zero either so you can use it for other things.

Overall, this would still probably be a nerf to Arms, but as we are discussing in other threads, this is most likely not the only change.

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But their has been no listing on how things are going to be buffed for arms.

And I'm all for making a talent non RNG for warriors, but it's still the same RNG skill but you nerfed it.

You keep saying that were leaving ourselves raged starved after using sudden death, but like I've posted many times before in other threads involving this issues that "A good warrior knows how, and when to use his or her's rage effectively."

Saying that this buff was here to help rage starved warriors is not very really tangible.


Just be honest:

You guys did not like the idea, of warriors doing crit Executes, for upwards of 16k+, in a PvP environment. So to avoid problems later your addressing the issue now.

I think that more people could respect nerfs thrown our way, if you guys were just completely honest about WHY the TRUE intentions of a skill were being nerfed.

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Q u o t e:
Seems to me that overall it's a good change, it would be hard to increase arms warrior damage in PVP without causing sudden death to create imbalanced burst potential, when i read that talent i knew it would be ridiculous.

Now that the talent is nerfed somewhat, Expect to see the possibility for changes in the tree to increase the effectiveness of arms via other routes.

Also take into account that Unholy DKs just got nerfed into the ground, Alls you need is ret paladins to go down some, and that would inherently make you a stronger PVP class.

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No offense, but i'll try to logically explain whats wrong with this picture.....


YOUR A DK, ENOUGH SAID. Your class is no WAY NEAR how warriors are. If anything DK's are how warriors should of been EVOLVED into.


I swear to god if I had a dollar every time A DK commented on warrior issues, I'd be FRIGGIN RICH.


DK's STAY OUTTA OUT THREADS, and OUR CLASS FORUMS.

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Q u o t e:



No offense, but i'll try to logically explain whats wrong with this picture.....


YOUR A DK, ENOUGH SAID. Your class is no WAY NEAR how warriors are. If anything DK's are how warriors should of been EVOLVED into.


I swear to god if I had a dollar every time A DK commented on warrior issues, I'd be FRIGGIN RICH.


DK's STAY OUTTA OUT THREADS, and OUR CLASS FORUMS.

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Because he's never played a wariror before

and maybe he tried to PvP as blood.