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Q u o t e:
The second healers are able to live (see paladins and, to a lesser extent shamans) are able to live through a bit of burst it's damned near impossible for two DPS to burn them down without chain timed CC/interrupts/silences. It's also impossible to run any healer out of mana with the current regen mechanics. If blizz is nerfing burst damage then they need to seriously look at a huge healing nerf as well.

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post can be found here
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/post.html?forumId=11117&topicId=13908730195&postId=141197621014&op=3&sid=1


that there are actually people out there that think like that, and have the audacity to express their point of view, and they are a dk.


absolutely ridiculous.

I fail to see how you are giving feedback?

EDIT: Or discussing anything at all.

I said this in another thread but I'm going to say it again anyways since it applies here.

Double DPS teams will always have a place in 2v2 as long as there are arenas. Right now, double DPS teams require almost no skill whatsoever and someone can be simply zerged and instantly killed, foregoing any strategy or attempt at CC on their partner. This isn't balance and this isn't the way the game should be played.

There were outlast endurance teams galore in S4 yet double DPS teams were still able to flourish. It takes timing, coordination, skill and know-how to be successful in a double DPS team. All of which is not necessary in arena's current format.

The argument that reducing damage will somehow make double DPS teams gimp or non-viable is absolutely ridiculous. Right now it's burst or bust. If you don't have the burst, you're likely not going to do as well as classes that can.

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Q u o t e:
It can be just as frustrating to feel unable to stop a healer as it can be to feel that you can't heal anything. I have personally been on both sides of that equation.

We understand that many players feel burst damage is too high right now. We hear you. But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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Many of us understand that, we just think its currently completely overboard. When arenas are saturated with burst-heavy classes with excellent defensive cooldowns (Ret Paladins, DKs, Rogues and Mages) wearing full PvE gear and a healer with 800+ resilience gets completely mauled before he can do anything, you have to admit the equation is skewed in their favour.

There needs to be an incentive for these classes to wear PvP gear if its ever going to stabilise. Like you said, the PvP gear has less offensive stats on it. Thing is, these classes defensive cooldowns are making resilience obsolete. If you can wear 800 resilience and still get bursted down in 3 seconds flat, why wear resilience? Why not just stack PvE gear and try to kill them before they kill you? First one to die, loses. Right now, I feel absolutely NO incentive to BG my brains out to gather PvP gear on my DK, while my Disc Priest partner absolutely HAS to. There's something wrong with that.

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Q u o t e:
It can be just as frustrating to feel unable to stop a healer as it can be to feel that you can't heal anything. I have personally been on both sides of that equation.

We understand that many players feel burst damage is too high right now. We hear you. But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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but then what good is a healer if he can die to 1 dps that isnt using silences or interrupts?

out dpsing a healer as a single dps that isnt interrupting at the right time shouldnt be possible. it should take a mortal debuff, mana draining or well timed interrupts to down a healer.

ret paladins are the only class that cant accomplish this, but currently they can burst down healers. if burst were toned down then they would probably need a better interrupt.

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Q u o t e:
It can be just as frustrating to feel unable to stop a healer as it can be to feel that you can't heal anything

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NO

because when you stop someone from healing, SOMEONE DIES

but when the healer is able to survive, THE GAME CONTINUES

those things are not comparable on the frustration level, unless you're suggesting that losing in 30 seconds is less frustrating than longer games

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Q u o t e:
It can be just as frustrating to feel unable to stop a healer as it can be to feel that you can't heal anything. I have personally been on both sides of that equation.

We understand that many players feel burst damage is too high right now. We hear you. But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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It already isnt. A druid went tree on me in AB, without assistance from a rogue for wounding and an additional stun I did nearly 70K damage to him and he was just continuing to HoT himself. I cant believe that the current gib style of arena will continue, and so once again MS is going to be required in arena, and CC will take control of matches.

And once they do drag on, Ret is going to be oom. :]

I think it should essential to have to use ONE CC.

While dps needs a spot, its the synergy of a dps oriented player + a CC type player that worries me. You guys made some very valid changes with fear breaking when an amount of damage is applied to the player- you have to do the same thing with the combination of stuns and school lockouts and silences.

Having a mutilate rogue on you is rough- strangulate + brain freeze + mutilate rogue is retarded.

Why should anyone even heal in arenas if it isn't going to be supported as a play type?

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Q u o t e:
I think it should essential to have to use ONE CC.

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no, it's too frustrating, sry

it's obvious at this point that blizzard is catering to the zerg mentality players who can't be bothered to use focus frames or CC

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Q u o t e:
It can be just as frustrating to feel unable to stop a healer as it can be to feel that you can't heal anything. I have personally been on both sides of that equation.

We understand that many players feel burst damage is too high right now. We hear you. But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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It sounds to me as though you want to claim that people should be able to just perform their DPS rotations on healers and kill them as a viable tactic. Raw DPS from a single target should never kill a healer. Then what's the point?

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Q u o t e:
Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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but when you hit that point, achieving that goal with those abilities makes it trivial.

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Q u o t e:
Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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wow

so backwards

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Q u o t e:
Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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This is completely insane. If there were classes in this game that didn't have CC and interrupts it might make sense, but that isn't ture. If a healer can't heal through pure dps with out any CC whatsoever, then damage classes shouldn't have CC.

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Q u o t e:
It can be just as frustrating to feel unable to stop a healer as it can be to feel that you can't heal anything. I have personally been on both sides of that equation.

We understand that many players feel burst damage is too high right now. We hear you. But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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How can you even think that's possible without healers being at an extreme disadvantage when there is crowd control, silences and 'whatever'?

I think a lot of people have been on both sides of the equation and agree both are frustrating. Why do healers have to get the short end of the stick though? The exact opposite of that mentality is telling dps they shouldn't be able to kill a healer unless all their cooldowns and CCs are up and usable. It's hardly a fair stance to take.

Now if you mean classes that have weak CC and no silence need to be able to kill a healer, that's fine. If a class with strong CC can kill a healer without using that CC it's not fine and not even close to fair to the healers.

if this is GC's opinion, the game isn't going to get any better

I heard a resto druid complaining about how hard it was to heal through two or more death knights attacking him.

also for the above:

You think it should be impossible for DPS to kill a healer without a numerical advantage?

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Q u o t e:
Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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This is one of those things where I'm going to firmly disagree. There is no challenge in simply dpsing down a healer, I've fought those fights running Enh Shaman/MS War/Resto Druid and fighting mirror teams. Both teams go for eachother's resto druid. Whoever does the most damage wins, a lot of the time its straight RNG. Those fights are incredibly boring and frustrating. I've gone 50/50 with a mirror team with neither of us changing strats all because of who got the most lucky crits, neither side has a silence or CC outside of the intercept stun and the druids never casted so interrupts were useless.

The most fun team for us to face was a well played PMR. That was all about well timed Cyclones, Earth Shocks, and Spell Reflects. Never once could we mindlessly jump on the priest because they'd kill our druid, likewise they couldn't just jump on our druid because we'd kill their rogue. There was communication, planning, retreats, and advances.

Jumping on a healer and killing it without the need of any CC/Interrupt chain is nothing, its just killing stuff, like Patchwerk PvP, I'd much rather fight Grobbulus.