Data used from

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/dkt/6/0

which is just a breakdown of raid DPS logs.

Going to use patchwerk data because it is the closest thing to a target dummy in game, which for a talent like BCB is a good way to gague the DPS from the talent.

Going down the top 10 DPS list on Patchwerk, listing the spec, the actual damage from Blood Caked Strikes, the number of Blood Caked Strikes, and the average damage of each Blood Caked Strike.

#1: DW Spec
total damage: 49,412
# of strikes: 72
avg dmg/strike: 686

#2: DW Spec
total damage: 56,307
# of strikes: 78
avg dmg/strike: 722

#3: DW Spec
total damage: 49,433
# of strikes:74
avg dmg/strike: 668

#4: DW Spec
total damage: 45,663
# of strikes: 71
avg dmg/strike: 643

#5: DW Spec
total damage: 42,027
# of strikes: 51
avg dmg/strike: 824

#6: DW Spec
total damage: 41,198
# of strikes: 54
avg dmg/strike: 763

#7: 2 Handed Spec
total damage: 26,775
# of strikes: 21
avg dmg/strike: 1275

#8: DW Spec
total damage: 41,148
# of strikes: 52
avg dmg/strike: 791

#9: DW Spec
total damage: 42,756
# of strikes: 56
avg dmg/strike: 764

#10: 2 Handed Spec
total damage: 23,224
# of strikes: 20
avg dmg/strike: 1162

Things to note:
1) There is not a single DW spec getting less then 40,000dmg from Blood Caked Strikes.
2) The 2 handed damage from Blood Caked Strikes never gets above 27,000 and averages at 25,000

Conclusions
1) Blood Caked Blade does more DPS for DW specs then it does for 2 Handed specs.
2) The difference in DPS from BCB for DW specs and 2 Handed specs is a significant percentage of total BCB DPS.
3) The greater raw DMG from a 2 handed weapon increasing the power of Blood Caked Strikes is not balancing out the extra number of strikes from Dual Wield specs.
4) The average dmg/strike for 2 handed weapons is not consistent with the ratio of weapon damage for the 2 handers compared to the 1 handers.

Can you look into this. Common perceptions are that this talent should be even for DW and 2 handed specs given the talent script. In reality the talent is vastly superior for the DW spec then it is for a 2 handed spec currently.

The other fights beyond simply patchwerk show similar trends.

Heh, where are all those people from the other thread that were saying "BCB is the same DPS in 2 handed and DW!"

GC blue post would be nice just so I know you know this issue exists. Need nothing more then "yep, we know this issue exists" or "working as intended" or whatever.

From Lothab
#1: 2 Handed Spec: 29931
#2: DW spec: 70470
#3: 2 Handed Spec: 30450
#4: DW spec: 68399
#5: 2 Handed Spec: 42687
#6: 2 Handed Spec: 29223
#7: 2 Handed Spec: 34697
#8: DW Spec: 49746
#9: 2 Handed Spec: 30203
#10 2 Handed Spec: 38622

Highest DW Blood Caked Strike damage: 70470
Highest 2H Blood Caked Strike damage: 42687

Lowest DW Blood Caked Strike damage: 49768
Lowest 2H Blood Caked Strike damage: 29223

Average DW BCS damage is very clearly vastly outpacing the BCS damage of 2 handers in this fight as well. Just in case all wanted to see more then just Patchwerk. In fact the highest showing for 2 handed DPS does not reach the lowest value for DW spec and falls more then 7000 dmg short, and the actual attack time of the DW spec in this fight was 3:46 compared to 3:59 for the 2 hander so equalizing these two extremes makes them even more divergent.

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Q u o t e:
There are talents that benefit DW more than 2H. We think that is more interesting than every talent always giving you the same benefit no matter what your gear choices. BCB, Killing Machine and Necrosis, among others, should benefit DW.

If DW is too strong now, as some players think, then these are talents we might change.

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I dont think DW is bloated. It has much more synergy at lower levels of gear than other DK specs. At higher levels of gear 2H seems to be fine and at times superior DPS.

Specifically, what makes people think that DW is bloated is that it's main nukes are completely weapon independent. The only thing you need are a pair of really fast weapons. Weapon DPS is not very important.

The rest depends on Hit, AP and crit.

It seems you are sending confusing messages GC. Some of your earlies statements tend to imply that these talents might be changed, but in a positive direction. Here you are implying that they might be changed to curb DW, thus in a negative direction. Is it that much of a balancing act for early talents in unholy?

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Q u o t e:

If DW is too strong now,

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If?

Seriously? Have you even looked at the breakdown of most of those fights?

People have just started speccing into it and gearing into it as they figure out how broken it is. How is it that in game and on these forums all of the 80 DK's know the spec is pretty much broken but you don't?

Plus if you are going to add talents like BCB and necrosis that are tuned for DW then why did you put them all in the Unholy tree so that we who use 2 handers are forced to take them or some non-combat talent like Pale Horse? Do you know how hard it is to find quality talents for a 2 handed build in the middle of the Unholy tree because you threw a bunch of DW tuned talents into the middle of it?

Bleh, screw it, going to get a grasscutter and some heroic level fast one hander. You failed at what you stated to be the goal of this class GC. It is a DW class, and it will stay that way for as long as you keep the blinders on.

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Q u o t e:


If?

Seriously? Have you even looked at the breakdown of most of those fights?

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You realize some of those are faked, right? Well nevermind, doesn't especially matter.

I'm still saying that nerfing KM is the wrong thing to due, it would pretty mcuh destroy the build.. icy touch is a more appetizing target imo.

also I seriously doubt you'll do very well with a DW build, given some of your opinions =P

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Q u o t e:

If? Please show me how 2handed spec can reach 6K+ dps for the entire boss fight?

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Every single boss mob in 25 man Naxx is listed in the link in the first post in this thread. It CLEARLY shows the dominance of the DW spec atm over 2 handed, 80% of the top DPS numbers are from DW specs.

GC is flat out ignoring the actual data by using a word "if".

This is only getting worse, the bandwagon jumping onto DW specs is recent, people are gearing towards it, respeccing into it, and they are going to be killing off every 2 handed spec on that list all together.

Hell, watch the new numbers once the HB cool down is removed, what a joke, atm GC has the foresite of a lemming on this topic.

I wonder if then GC will say "gee guys, I think we found a problem, DW is doing too well, good thing we were here to catch this problem, it's why we get paid the big bucks after all ha ha".

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Q u o t e:



I think it's that they are not convinced that DW is overpowered or that 2h DK dps needs to be boosted. Currently both need to take place.

However you know Blizzard is always 6months behind the playerbase and EJ when it comes to what's actually going on in game.

I expect some 2hd dps improvements 3-4 months from now, and insane DW nerfs to come around that same time frame, and it will only happen because every top DK is DWing.

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while DW needs a nerf and 2h needs a slight buff, there's no need to exaggerate the problem this much... perhaps the problem is the ghoul? since according to other threads on this, it's about 1k DPS on it's own..

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Q u o t e:
Plus if you are going to add talents like BCB and necrosis that are tuned for DW then why did you put them all in the Unholy tree so that we who use 2 handers are forced to take them or some non-combat talent like Pale Horse? Do you know how hard it is to find quality talents for a 2 handed build in the middle of the Unholy tree because you threw a bunch of DW tuned talents into the middle of it?

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ya b/c clearly pale horse adds more dps than bcb or necrosis.

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Q u o t e:

also I seriously doubt you'll do very well with a DW build, given some of your opinions =P

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Rest assured, I will be back to let you know. Count on it.

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Q u o t e:


Rest assured, I will be back to let you know. Count on it.

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the problem more than anything ( IMO ) is the fact that my plague strike crits for something like ... 900? while using a 2 hander... and my icy touch crits for something like 2800?

Also the 1000 DPS ghoul.

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Q u o t e:



No!

The ghoul is not the problem. The ghoul and Army of the dead doesn't even show up on WWS. This is what makes the DW parses so insanely overpowered.

If you see a 6500dps parse on WWS from a DW DK that means he was probably somewhere in the 7200 range when you add in Army Of The Dead and Ghoul.

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my point was the 16 page thread had the DK at 5400 DPS on patchwerk, yet the recount screenshot he claimed was for the same fight had him at 6400...

do you have a 6.5k WWS on patchwerk?

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Q u o t e:

ya b/c clearly pale horse adds more dps than bcb or necrosis.

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Wow, welcome to my point.

You get crappy dps DW tuned talents, or talents that do no dps at all.

So when you are speccing 2 handed dps in Unholy you are getting a crappy talent not tuned to your supposed class favored 2 hander or you are getting nothng at all.

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Q u o t e:


Wow, welcome to my point.

You get crappy dps DW tuned talents, or talents that do no dps at all.

So when you are speccing 2 handed dps in Unholy you are getting a crappy talent not tuned to your supposed class favored 2 hander or you are getting nothng at all.

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Heaven forbid they give unholy some minor semblance of haste scaling through talents, or would you rather unholy scales even worse than it currently does.

GC Don't listen to these QQers. Theyre trying to show off their parses of top equipped players and claim this spec is broken compared to thier garbage 2h gear. I have good gear for the content ive been able to clear (all of 10 man and some 25 man stuff) And i pull 3.5k-4.5k on patch depending on the buffs i recieve from the raid. And thats 25 man patchwerk. My rotations are solid and im hit/expertise capped. Ive spoken with several 2h dks who are at the same level as these 6.2k dps DWers and they do similiar if not VERY little less damage. NOT to mention patchwerk is a boss where you stand still and smack a stationary boss.. i mean really?