So from what im hearing from ghost crawler. is that healers are supposed to die.

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Q u o t e:
But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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So if cc and dps can kill a healer.
and dps can kill a healer.

what cannot kill a healer?

seriously i must ask its like your saying priests shammys druids.. and to a much lesser extend holy pallys are supposed to be just fodder for the insane dps.

also in a way its like your saying "well we don't want to alienate the retarded dps that never learned about the cc's the class has. So we will just let all dpsers be able to blow a healer into bloody chunks"




Now I understand this point of view. and i give you and your company much cudos for it. it makes the most money for the least amount of money and effort spent.

But do you think anyone wants to watch a match where all the dps does in run in and whoever is burst first looses..




the new wow motto is this.


" STRATEGY DOES NOT PAY THE BILLS, SKILL DOES NOT PAY THE BILLS, IDIOTS PLAYING FOTM CLASSES PAY THE BILLS AND SO THEY WIN BY DEFAULT"


just a little side note there bub... im sure its all good and fun for those dks rets rogues and mages.. but in the end when its 4 classes fighting each other in arena.. see what heppens to your playerbase..

There's so much flawed thinking behind GC's statement that I can't even begin to contemplate it. A lot of the things he's said about PvE have made perfect sense, even if I disagreed with the solutions - but I don't understand any way that what he said in that post can be taken and not be completely wrongheaded.

Pure DPS stacks with other effects. It's why when people were still saying "oh god ret is useless god why me whyyyyyyyyy", good players were running comps with ret paladins. You can combine a broken skill like Mortal Strike with other things like, say, ret armour-piercing burst DPS, and come up with a comp that can quick switch and blow someone up in a GCD if the dice go their way.

No wonder PvP is in the state it's in if that's the sort of thinking going on at Blizzard. I'm just baffled.

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Q u o t e:
So if cc and dps can kill a healer.
and dps can kill a healer.

what cannot kill a healer?

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If spamming DPS alone is to be already more than HPS, then DPS + CC + Interrupts / Silences becomes vastly more than resulting reduced HPS...

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Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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The whole point of being a healer is to keep people alive. You try to make the health bars go up, and the dps try to make the health bars go down. What you're saying, that killing a healer without any cc or interrupts should be viable, means that healers will always lose. The health bar will always go down.

If killing a healer is always possible....while they're healing.....(which i assume because they're not being cc'd interrupted or silenced) then what's the point of healing exactly? I don't get it. Your health bar will go down regardless, completely eliminating any benefit, and actually causing a liability. After all, your team could have had an extra dps. Or somebody who preforms a function.

I honestly think your taking his statement way out of context. He was simply stating that a dps team focusing on the healer first should be a viable option. This has not always been the case.

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If spamming DPS alone is to be already more than HPS, then DPS + CC + Interrupts / Silences becomes vastly more than resulting reduced HPS...

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Your forgot the mortal strike aim shot rogues.

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I honestly think your taking his statement way out of context. He was simply stating that a dps team focusing on the healer first should be a viable option. This has not always been the case.

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Not "focusing on the healer."
Keyboard turning and not knowing how to CC but still killing the healer is more like it

Strangely enough i didn't that in his statement anywhere o.0

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Strangely enough i didn't that in his statement anywhere o.0

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He wrote it between the lines. Look harder.

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I honestly think your taking his statement way out of context. He was simply stating that a dps team focusing on the healer first should be a viable option. This has not always been the case.

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No, he said focusing the healer without cc or silences. That's a whole nother ball game. That means, that no matter what I do, if i get focused, I will die. And let's face it: I'm a healer. I always get focused.

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No, he said focusing the healer without cc or silences. That's a whole nother ball game. That means, that no matter what I do, if i get focused, I will die. And let's face it: I'm a healer. I always get focused.

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No he meant if you have a class that relies mostly on dps, they wont be screwed when trying to kill you without burns/MS debuffs/heavy CC

And if that's the case we might finally see the classes with the high amount of CC's start being accountable for having them.

Ok so honestly you think you should be able to heal through any damage thrown at you? And seriously you guys really think blizzard and gc are against you or something? I understand being frustrated with the current state of pvp, i am as well, but i think talk like this is a little bit extreme.

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Ok so honestly you think you should be able to heal through any damage thrown at you? And seriously you guys really think blizzard and gc are against you or something? I understand being frustrated with the current state of pvp, i am as well, but i think talk like this is a little bit extreme.

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I think telling a healer that they should still die even if the DPS on them doesn't even use any of his CC/interrupt skills is more extreme.
It makes it pointless to play a healer in pvp.

I mean what's the point?
If the game is designed in a way that you're going to have to die, why bring a healer?

Back in s3/s4, mage/rogue combos (read: no healers) were amazing.
No healers.
And now they want to make it 10 times easier to kill healers.

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No he meant if you have a class that relies mostly on dps, they wont be screwed when trying to kill you without burns/MS debuffs/heavy CC

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So you pair a paladin (mostly dps) with a rogue (high amount of cc's) and what do you get? Death. Repeatedly. Forever. The great thing is, they could each solo you.

He said healers thought burst dps was too high, but that busting down a healer needed to be a viable option. That, to me, says that he thinks things are how they should be now. I assure you, I die in seconds to a ret paladin. I also die in seconds to a rogue. My point is, he's justifying how things are right now, where healers die cringe-worthy deaths when sneezed at. The only decent pvp healer right now is the one who can go invincible. Fancy that.

He thinks that how things are right now is okay.

But doesn't everyone have an interrupt or silence (and cc for that matter)? Why does simple damage have to be a viable option?

Doesn't that also mean that the opposite should be true, that healing should be a viable option? Which I'd say right now it is not.

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Ok so honestly you think you should be able to heal through any damage thrown at you? And seriously you guys really think blizzard and gc are against you or something? I understand being frustrated with the current state of pvp, i am as well, but i think talk like this is a little bit extreme.

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No, i think that when hunters, shaman, death knights, warriors, mages and spriests have a silence on a 20 or 30 second cooldown, paired with other, even better interrupts/silence abilities like strangulate, earth shock , they should be required to use them.

As it is, what he's saying is that there is no strategy to burning down a healer. You won't need cc's or interrupts or silences. You can simply burst him down, using damage he cannot heal through. If i can't heal through it, then i lose every time. And dps have roughly equalized damage now. So that ret pally and that rogue do roughly the same damage, but the rogue has multiple cc's/ms effects and interrupts.

I think you know something is wrong when Holy Paladins have to spec 22 points into Ret to even survive against rogue/xxx teams, by taking Eye for a Eye and Divine Purpose. And even then, 90% of the time, I still die, but our team wins because both dps'ers blow their cooldowns on me, and don't focus on my partner, and by the time the rogue is done with me, he's almost dead, thanks to Eye for a Eye. I frankly don't see how other healers can even make it though a stun lock, let alone two.

The worst part about all this is they'll probably nerf paladins so all the healers have a equal chance of dieing within 5 secs of a ambush.


Also, I have a question. Why would any sane DPS right now switch to PVP gear? Especially to lower their DPS when they can already kill the healers with resil?

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I think telling a healer that they should still die even if the DPS on them doesn't even use any of his CC/interrupt skills is more extreme.
It makes it pointless to play a healer in pvp.

I mean what's the point?
If the game is designed in a way that you're going to have to die, why bring a healer?

Back in s3/s4, mage/rogue combos (read: no healers) were amazing.
No healers.
And now they want to make it 10 times easier to kill healers.

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Like I said that's pretty extreme. So two dps should be unable to take down a single healer without cc, or silence? Your just asking for god mode. I agree changes need to be made but begging to made a god does not further our cause.

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I honestly think your taking his statement way out of context. He was simply stating that a dps team focusing on the healer first should be a viable option. This has not always been the case.

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You must be really bad at this game if your rogue/x team failed to gib the healer early with just gear or cc train the healer to the point they couldn't heal themselves anymore. You really don't see that Blizzard wants to dumb things down more?

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So you pair a paladin (mostly dps) with a rogue (high amount of cc's) and what do you get? Death. Repeatedly. Forever. The great thing is, they could each solo you.

He said healers thought burst dps was too high, but that busting down a healer needed to be a viable option. That, to me, says that he thinks things are how they should be now. I assure you, I die in seconds to a ret paladin. I also die in seconds to a rogue. My point is, he's justifying how things are right now, where healers die cringe-worthy deaths when sneezed at. The only decent pvp healer right now is the one who can go invincible. Fancy that.

He thinks that how things are right now is okay.

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You're taking the context of the statment and warping it to negative views. I don't blame you, since pvp does suck right now, but it isn't helping.

Take this example

2v2

team 1:low CC/High dps class+healer

team 2:High CC/good dps class+healer

In the old system team 2 stood a much higher chance of winning, control when fighting healers>dps

The new system aims to make both viable and equal eg if team 1 dps does his job better(staying on target) then team 2 dps(screwing up CC rotations) there should be a noticeable gap for team 2 to make up.

Both teams should be able to have an equal chance at winning. The trick we have now is making the High CC classes have the right amount of dps so they don't even have to bother with the CC. Which is what I meant by making them accountable. Are they close right now? No. Even GC agrees with you on that, or he wouldn't have asked the dps forums of how the other classes that make up team 1 found dps levels right now.