World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hunter

Koplol

< Negative Bro >

Archimonde

0. Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hunter 01/05/2009 11:09:04 PM PST

I know this probably won't get a blue response, and it will probably be just another thread that dies in the heap of posts in this forum. But i will try, poorly at that too.

I'll get to the point:

ASPECTS
Aspects on the current PTR are on the same global cool-down of everything else.

Is this just left out of the PTRs or is this a change that we should expect in the game?

STEADY SHOT
Steady shot was doing less damage than my auto shots on the PTR . This was with it unglyphed.I know you have stated that some of the hunter nerfs are a bit much but come on, SS doing less than auto shot seems crazy.

Do you want steady shot to just be a castable auto shot?

NERFS TO BUFFS TO NERFS TO BUFFS....
You also stated in a post that yes some of the nerfs to hunters are going to be rough but don't worry in patch 3.1 which is in 3-6 months will give you a nice new shiny thingy( which I'm sure is some sort of ammo change) which will make it all BETTER!

Why do you do these things? I know it is because you don't want people to become upset about these changes and give them something to look forward to, but why do you do it like this? I don't mind nerfs and changes to the game at all but nerfing a class then telling the class don't worry come the next patch in 3-6 months things will be all better.

Stop with the games it gets annoying to the players. If you want to nerf a class nerf it. If you want to buff a class buff it. I don't want to know that you plan on nerfing a class now but the next patch you plan on buffing it. It's the same as what you did when wotlk came out. Don't worry it will be all better in 2 months when wotlk comes out.

No games, just ruthless action.

Forgot 1 more

DETERRENCE
Said you might change it to 360. Seems very needed to me if we are not going to be able to attack during.

360 or 180 in front?

[ Post edited by Koplol ]

Why should I spend 4000 mana trying trying to spellsteal lots and lots of buffs just to get one that absorbs 45 damage?
----Maglrlfc(Duskwood's Worst Mage) comments on Blessing of Sacrifice

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

1. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/05/2009 11:55:27 PM PST

Q u o t e:
ASPECTS
Aspects on the current PTR are on the same global cool-down of everything else.

Is this just left out of the PTRs or is this a change that we should expect in the game?

Initially we removed the GCD. Then the more we thought about it, what we were asking hunters to do was quickly swap aspects as needed (and more likely just macro them). We thought hunters had a lot of buttons to push already especially when melee get on you and intead just made a new aspect so you could get the benefits of both defense and ranged and wouldn't have to swap as much. If you are just swapping to Viper, the cooldown doesn't seem like a big imposition.

Q u o t e:
STEADY SHOT
Steady shot was doing less damage than my auto shots on the PTR . This was with it unglyphed.I know you have stated that some of the hunter nerfs are a bit much but come on, SS doing less than auto shot seems crazy.

Do you want steady shot to just be a castable auto shot?

I don't think I ever said the nerfs are a bit much. Plenty of hunters may have said that. :) Steady Shot got a massive buff in LK when it started using ammo. We thought it was doing too much damage. If hunter damage is low, and I don't really think it is going to be from the tests we've done and some of the raiding groups we've talked to, we'll likely adjust hunters in other ways.

Q u o t e:
NERFS TO BUFFS TO NERFS TO BUFFS....
You also stated in a post that yes some of the nerfs to hunters are going to be rough but don't worry in patch 3.1 which is in 3-6 months will give you a nice new shiny thingy( which I'm sure is some sort of ammo change) which will make it all BETTER!

Why do you do these things? I know it is because you don't want people to become upset about these changes and give them something to look forward to, but why do you do it like this? I don't mind nerfs and changes to the game at all but nerfing a class then telling the class don't worry come the next patch in 3-6 months things will be all better.

Stop with the games it gets annoying to the players. If you want to nerf a class nerf it. If you want to buff a class buff it. I don't want to know that you plan on nerfing a class now but the next patch you plan on buffing it. It's the same as what you did when wotlk came out. Don't worry it will be all better in 2 months when wotlk comes out.

I think I need to clarify this because you're getting something different out of it from what I said.

I said: we think these changes will put all 3 specs close together for PvE dps rather than BM (or on the PTR Survival) being way out in front. I anticipated some players saying "Yeah but we won't scale" because players often say that when they think nerfs are too severe (though I don't mean to imply it isn't a legit concern in general). I said we have a plan for that in the Ulduar patch (we hope) so how Steady Shot stacks up at some future date isn't productive for you guys to worry about because by the time you get there the numbers will be pretty different. It would be like comparing LK's Steady Shot to BC's or to the hunter class before Steady existed.

Now I will say again that you should not interpret our telling you that we have some future plans for your class to mean that we think your class is just a quivering mess and needs to be totally rebuilt. We are always looking a few months ahead toward the next thing we want to work on. Car manufacturers release new models all the time and other companies announce expansions or future initiatives. That doesn't mean their current models are utter failures. It just means they have an eye on the future. WoW isn't the kind of game you ever finish designing.

Deimøs

< Skillville >

The Underbog

3. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:02:21 AM PST

so why are we getting nerfed know when you say we will just need to be readjusted in 3.1 to compete again

just let us compete now and in 3.1

first

[ Post edited by Deimøs ]

I deliver lead like Domino's does pizza; hot, fresh, and on time.

mine works really well and can take a fair amount of pressure without bending

Nathyrra

Korgath

4. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:08:02 AM PST

GC? :o

Serennia

Eolin

< Maelstrom >

Kul Tiras

5. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:21:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Initially we removed the GCD. Then the more we thought about it, what we were asking hunters to do was quickly swap aspects as needed (and more likely just macro them). We thought hunters had a lot of buttons to push already especially when melee get on you and intead just made a new aspect so you could get the benefits of both defense and ranged and wouldn't have to swap as much. If you are just swapping to Viper, the cooldown doesn't seem like a big imposition.

And you wonder why the hunter class hates you. There's no reason to put them BACK on the GCD. We love them off the GCD, leave them off. Making it sound like you're doing us a favor by having them on the GCD is ridiculous and insulting to our intelligence. Maybe swapping to viper won't be such a big deal (except for the whole "losing a second and a half of doing anything", of course) but what about when we need (or want, or whatever) to swap to and from cheetah for any reason? Just leave them off the GCD. There's no reason to change it back.

Oh yeah, and the nerfs are way too much. WAY too much.

Tailslol

Vek'nilash

6. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:27:42 AM PST

I wasn't that worried about any of the nerfs, but if Aspects are back on GCD, I have to say 'What were you thinking".

If you honestly believe that hunters are OP in arena because aspects are off the GCD.......

I mean what does that even mean? You say hunters had to push too many buttons. Putting aspects back on GCD does not reduce our keybinds or anything. GCD management is much more important for a hunter than keybindmania. We already have too many GCD's to counter a single GCD from another class. Adding one more to it won't help. That extra 1.5 second is quite crucial in arena. I honestly don't have any idea what you were thinking.

You guys should be taking more stuff off the GCD like readyness or Rapid Fire. Not putting things back on it.

[ Post edited by Tailslol ]

Known as Tails from Ravencrest-EU, Sienna from EJ Hunter Mechanics thread, lvl 80 Hunter and longtime theorycrafter

Temna

< TKx >

Dragonblight

7. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:34:28 AM PST

Also whats with the removal of the tameability of the LSD Wasp of Doom? D:

Yes this is my main ><

"The frozen winds of hell's ninth circle cannot penetrate this cloak of flame I wear!"
- From someone more powerful then Rag imo

Malandris

< Succession >

Doomhammer

8. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:38:18 AM PST

sigh i liked having aspects of the GCD, its just stupid to have them on the GCD.

But hey when i switch to survival after BM gets slaughtered behind the barn i wont have to go to viper.

Legaltrap

< Play >

Hellscream

9. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:39:06 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Car manufacturers release new models all the time and other companies announce expansions or future initiatives.

Car manufacturers, really... you couldn't think of anything better?

Tailslol

Vek'nilash

10. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:39:49 AM PST

Q u o t e:
sigh i liked having aspects of the GCD, its just stupid to have them on the GCD.

But hey when i switch to survival after BM gets slaughtered behind the barn i wont have to go to viper.

You still will be going viper, survival gains more mana but not like it's infinite mana.

Known as Tails from Ravencrest-EU, Sienna from EJ Hunter Mechanics thread, lvl 80 Hunter and longtime theorycrafter

Survivor

Earthen Ring

12. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:54:22 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Initially we removed the GCD. Then the more we thought about it, what we were asking hunters to do was quickly swap aspects as needed (and more likely just macro them). We thought hunters had a lot of buttons to push already especially when melee get on you and intead just made a new aspect so you could get the benefits of both defense and ranged and wouldn't have to swap as much. If you are just swapping to Viper, the cooldown doesn't seem like a big imposition.

I don't think I ever said the nerfs are a bit much. Plenty of hunters may have said that. :) Steady Shot got a massive buff in LK when it started using ammo. We thought it was doing too much damage. If hunter damage is low, and I don't really think it is going to be from the tests we've done and some of the raiding groups we've talked to, we'll likely adjust hunters in other ways.

I think I need to clarify this because you're getting something different out of it from what I said.

I said: we think these changes will put all 3 specs close together for PvE dps rather than BM (or on the PTR Survival) being way out in front. I anticipated some players saying "Yeah but we won't scale" because players often say that when they think nerfs are too severe (though I don't mean to imply it isn't a legit concern in general). I said we have a plan for that in the Ulduar patch (we hope) so how Steady Shot stacks up at some future date isn't productive for you guys to worry about because by the time you get there the numbers will be pretty different. It would be like comparing LK's Steady Shot to BC's or to the hunter class before Steady existed.

Now I will say again that you should not interpret our telling you that we have some future plans for your class to mean that we think your class is just a quivering mess and needs to be totally rebuilt. We are always looking a few months ahead toward the next thing we want to work on. Car manufacturers release new models all the time and other companies announce expansions or future initiatives. That doesn't mean their current models are utter failures. It just means they have an eye on the future. WoW isn't the kind of game you ever finish designing.

Fortunately for Blizzard, that kind of lazy, reactionary thinking won't require their paying citizens to bend over for the bail-out.

You guys should write for Detroit.

Seriously, the future is 24 hours ago.
We don't need a current masterpiece, we need a current draft.

Twas an effort nobler in the mind.

Womensrights

< Wendigo Brewing Co >

Alterac Mountains

13. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:55:46 AM PST

Instead of changing unnecessary things like putting hunter aspects on GCD I think that sort of time could be spent fixing more important issues lol :/

Its really pointless to put hunter aspects back on GCD, and makes hunters (who already seem short on globals in pvp) even clunkier :/

+_+

Tailslol

Vek'nilash

14. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:58:27 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Instead of changing unnecessary things like putting hunter aspects on GCD I think that sort of time could be spent fixing more important issues lol :/

Its really pointless to put hunter aspects back on GCD, and makes hunters (who already seem short on globals in pvp) even clunkier :/

It's a quite big nerf to put them on GCD actually. Any serious arena hunter already got used to switching to viper exactly the moment they are gonna shoot any non-damaging shot and then back to hawk when they start dealing damage. This totally kills that mechanic and is a big nerf even if some people who don't arena much don't realize this.

Known as Tails from Ravencrest-EU, Sienna from EJ Hunter Mechanics thread, lvl 80 Hunter and longtime theorycrafter

Trac

< Order of Thrones >

Mannoroth

15. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 12:59:21 AM PST

So I'm pretty ridiculously sick of getting tossed around like a volleyball.

Don't go through with this aspect change.

Q u o t e:
You guys wanna hear another funny story involving warriors?

Today on my server, a warrior was !#!@@ing in trade about there being no tanks.

Tinpot

< ultimate >

Shadowsong

16. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 01:00:18 AM PST

Awesome , DK's pulling 6.3 k dps in a raid with a weird spec is fine, but a hunter doing 5k is overpowered.

So ghost, can we expect you to come back in 3 months and apologise when hunters are down the bottom of the dps charts or will we get another "We fill fix you in the next expansion." ?

Oh and what happened to SVs promised 41 point talent? That get buried while you buffed the DKs some more?

Dwarf "Tell me what I want to know and I will hit ye' with me axe"
"Don't you mean "Or you will hit me with your axe?"
Dwarf "Na I just like hitting things with me axe"
*THUNK*

Tailslol

Vek'nilash

17. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 01:03:26 AM PST

I mean seriously I couldn't be more pissed than I am right now. Warriors have been macroing
/defensive Stance
/equip Shield
/cast Spell Reflect

for years. And when hunters macro
/cast Aspect Of The Viper
/cast Viper Sting

it suddenly becomes OP.

I have a mage friend who has a macro which does
icy veins mirror image summon pet

in one GCD. But nooo when hunters do 2 actions in one GCD it's overpowered.

[ Post edited by Tailslol ]

Known as Tails from Ravencrest-EU, Sienna from EJ Hunter Mechanics thread, lvl 80 Hunter and longtime theorycrafter

Survivor

Earthen Ring

18. Re: Couple of Quick Questions for Ghost on Hu 01/06/2009 01:05:26 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Awesome , DK's pulling 6.3 k dps in a raid with a weird spec is fine, but a hunter doing 5k is overpowered.

So ghost, can we expect you to come back in 3 months and apologise when hunters are down the bottom of the dps charts or will we get another "We fill fix you in the next expansion." ?

Oh and what happened to SVs promised 41 point talent? That get buried while you buffed the DKs some more?

This poster makes a good point, even if it violates the rules harder than I do!

Seriously, you've posted in a manner that suggests you're a whole lot of ok with wtf-spec'd DW DK's lighting up the dps like a raid stacking HaT rogues. Howling Blast off CD is about the 2nd worst thing you can do right now if you want to have any accurate, representable and repeatable data.

I never said your job was easy.

Twas an effort nobler in the mind.

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