With the upcoming patch, Blizzard will be introducing the dual-spec feature. Im sure this will help out in raids and such, but at a cost.

With this new feature, the classes who can solely DPS (Hunters, Mages, Rogues, and Warlocks) will be all but wiped out. With hybrid classes now dealing as much, and in most cases, more damage than the DPSers, there will be virtually no reason to even bring us.

A raid leaders decisions will most likely follow a train of thought close to this:
Should I bring a...
-Hunter or Ret Paladin...The Ret paladin does equal damage, has more group buffs, and can spec holy or prot at any time to help out the raid. Ret Paladin
-Mage or Elemental Shaman...Shaman buffs the group greatly with totems, does equal damage, has Blood Lust,and can spec Resto to help heal...Elemental Shaman
-Rogue or Death Knight....DK does more damage, can rez players who die to add DPS, and can tank...Death Knight
-Warlock or Swadow Priest...SP does equal damage, gives the group great buffs, and can heal if needed...Shadow Priest

Im sure other players who play a DPS only class and are worried about this upcoming problem. I like playing my warlock, and want to continue playing it. I ask you to please look into this upcoming problem.

My belief is that hybrid classes' damage dealing trees were given good utility originally because they did not bring as much damage to the raids. Now that they are doing as much damage, and they still have those same great utilities, we are going to be out of a job.

My Personal Ideas
1. Buff the DPS class damage, making the classes who can ONLY DPS do the BEST DPS.
2. Give us better raid utility, or improve upon the (little) utility we already have.

Closing Statement....
There are no classes who can tank and only tank.
There are no classes who can heal and only heal.
There are FOUR classes who can DPS and only DPS.

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Q u o t e:
With the upcoming patch, Blizzard will be introducing the dual-spec feature. Im sure this will help out in raids and such, but at a cost.

With this new feature, the classes who can solely DPS (Hunters, Mages, Rogues, and Warlocks) will be all but wiped out. With hybrid classes now dealing as much, and in most cases, more damage than the DPSers, there will be virtually no reason to even bring us.

A raid leaders decisions will most likely follow a train of thought close to this:
Should I bring a...
-Hunter or Ret Paladin...The Ret paladin does equal damage, has more group buffs, and can spec holy or prot at any time to help out the raid. Ret Paladin
-Mage or Elemental Shaman...Shaman buffs the group greatly with totems, does equal damage, has Blood Lust,and can spec Resto to help heal...Elemental Shaman
-Rogue or Death Knight....DK does more damage, can rez players who die to add DPS, and can tank...Death Knight
-Warlock or Swadow Priest...SP does equal damage, gives the group great buffs, and can heal if needed...Shadow Priest

Im sure other players who play a DPS only class and are worried about this upcoming problem. I like playing my warlock, and want to continue playing it. I ask you to please look into this upcoming problem.

My belief is that hybrid classes' damage dealing trees were given good utility originally because they did not bring as much damage to the raids. Now that they are doing as much damage, and they still have those same great utilities, we are going to be out of a job.

My Personal Ideas
1. Buff the DPS class damage, making the classes who can ONLY DPS do the BEST DPS.
2. Give us better raid utility, or improve upon the (little) utility we already have.

Closing Statement....
There are no classes who can tank and only tank.
There are no classes who can heal and only heal.
There are FOUR classes who can DPS and only DPS.

---

I am no fan of GC but for years customers have been talking about Tank / Healer shortages so I see this as a good change (for once). If it creates the burning of a few more calories considering group make up so be it.

I don't think this is all that bad.

Having additional options, at least in the case of 3.0.8 mages - can provide some good things as well.

Say you've got a highly mobile fight - arcane is really attractive if there is a need to min-max.
More static fights - well, some spec utilizing heavy fire looks good.
Mega-raid damage and/or AoE intensive fight - this might be a good time to take a look at the options frost has to offer.

I know this doesn't speak for all classes - but I don't see how a person that's always competitive in dps will not get to raid over another person merely because that person plays some non-dps-only class.

Do shaman, druid, warriors, etc pick up off-spec gear? Sure. Do some respec depending on who shows up that night? Ye - and it helps out the guild because the raid can actually 'go' that night when the feral druid specs tree for the evening. Do pure dps classes lose raid slots because of that? Not particularly, unless you're doing consistently less damage than the hybrid's 'main' spec.

---

Q u o t e:


I am no fan of GC but for years customers have been talking about Tank / Healer shortages so I see this as a good change (for once). If it creates the burning of a few more calories considering group make up so be it.

---

In that light, you are a hybrid class so your opinion is biased, as is mine as well. However I am the one who's raid spot is on the line =/

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Q u o t e:
I don't think this is all that bad.

Having additional options, at least in the case of 3.0.8 mages - can provide some good things as well.

Say you've got a highly mobile fight - arcane is really attractive if there is a need to min-max.
More static fights - well, some spec utilizing heavy fire looks good.
Mega-raid damage and/or AoE intensive fight - this might be a good time to take a look at the options frost has to offer.

I know this doesn't speak for all classes - but I don't see how a person that's always competitive in dps will not get to raid over another person merely because that person plays some non-dps-only class.

Do shaman, druid, warriors, etc pick up off-spec gear? Sure. Do some respec depending on who shows up that night? Ye - and it helps out the guild because the raid can actually 'go' that night when the feral druid specs tree for the evening. Do pure dps classes lose raid slots because of that? Not particularly, unless you're doing consistently less damage than the hybrid's 'main' spec.

---

You bring a good point. The guilded DPS class who always runs raids with his guild may be fine, but to the less-active raider who is forced to PUG most of his raids, may not be so fortunate. Need to keep things fair for every type of player.

You may be correct, but I wouldn't trust Blizzard to correct it very fast if it proves to be the case.

There is a solution though.


This is my Mage.

OMG ROFL LOL!!


Elemental shaman = Mage

LOL I AM STILL LAUGHING!!!

And this is my Shaman.

I guarantee you that dual specs will result in more groups forming faster and more opportunities for everyone to get to where they're trying to go.

the sky is not falling. In fact just the opposite. Save your complaints for when something bad actually happens.

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Q u o t e:


In that light, you are a hybrid class so your opinion is biased, as is mine as well. However I am the one who's raid spot is on the line =/

---

What was that about on the line...

This isn't a dual spec issue. I look forward to dual spec very eagerly.

As a pure dps class with a very stringent raiding spec I still spend a lot of time outside of a raid environment and will greatly enjoy my second spec which will be pvp focussed.

---

Q u o t e:
With the upcoming patch, Blizzard will be introducing the dual-spec feature. Im sure this will help out in raids and such, but at a cost.

With this new feature, the classes who can solely DPS (Hunters, Mages, Rogues, and Warlocks) will be all but wiped out. With hybrid classes now dealing as much, and in most cases, more damage than the DPSers, there will be virtually no reason to even bring us.

A raid leaders decisions will most likely follow a train of thought close to this:
Should I bring a...
-Hunter or Ret Paladin...The Ret paladin does equal damage, has more group buffs, and can spec holy or prot at any time to help out the raid. Ret Paladin
-Mage or Elemental Shaman...Shaman buffs the group greatly with totems, does equal damage, has Blood Lust,and can spec Resto to help heal...Elemental Shaman
-Rogue or Death Knight....DK does more damage, can rez players who die to add DPS, and can tank...Death Knight
-Warlock or Swadow Priest...SP does equal damage, gives the group great buffs, and can heal if needed...Shadow Priest

Im sure other players who play a DPS only class and are worried about this upcoming problem. I like playing my warlock, and want to continue playing it. I ask you to please look into this upcoming problem.

My belief is that hybrid classes' damage dealing trees were given good utility originally because they did not bring as much damage to the raids. Now that they are doing as much damage, and they still have those same great utilities, we are going to be out of a job.

My Personal Ideas
1. Buff the DPS class damage, making the classes who can ONLY DPS do the BEST DPS.
2. Give us better raid utility, or improve upon the (little) utility we already have.

Closing Statement....
There are no classes who can tank and only tank.
There are no classes who can heal and only heal.
There are FOUR classes who can DPS and only DPS.

---

Do you know what the word friend means? Raid with people you like, this is the point of the "Bring the player, not the class" , if you have a hard time finding a group, change guild.

OP you are making the normal mistake of all the QQ posts on dual spec.

There is not a single boss in the game that needs 10 healers and 15 tanks. And until there is your argument fails completely.

There are 25 raid spots. You build your raid based on firstly grabbing the tanks and healers. Say 3 tanks and 7 healers. Now you have 15 spots left for DPS.

For some reason you seem to think that every DPS spot will go to a hybrid because they can respec and tank or heal if needed. Can you envision a single event in WoW where you need every hybrid to respec? The spots will go, as they do now, to the best DPS available, regardless of class. And that is the way it should be.

Sure it is nice to have a hybrid who can rapidly respec if a healer or tank DCs. But when this happens all that it means is that a DPS spot has opened up for the 16th best DPS to come along.

The real affect of dual spec is that in the encounters where fewer tanks or healers are needed then the spare ones can respec to do more DPS. The number of DPS spots available has not changed.

In fact dual spec seems to be of benefit to pure classes. It will put more pressure on the hybrids to collect the gear to carry out two roles in one raid. If the buffs the hybrid DPS was bringing is now covered by an off DPS hybrid for the 90% of the boss fights where their healing or tanking is not needed then that makes it tougher for a full time hybrid DPS to hold their spot. They now give up a baseline DPS advantage to the pures, and can not offer any buffs for a large chunk of the raid.

---

Q u o t e:

Should I bring a...
-Hunter or Ret Paladin...The Ret paladin does equal damage, has more group buffs, and can spec holy or prot at any time to help out the raid. Ret Paladin
-Mage or Elemental Shaman...Shaman buffs the group greatly with totems, does equal damage, has Blood Lust,and can spec Resto to help heal...Elemental Shaman
-Rogue or Death Knight....DK does more damage, can rez players who die to add DPS, and can tank...Death Knight
-Warlock or Swadow Priest...SP does equal damage, gives the group great buffs, and can heal if needed...Shadow Priest

---

I just read this.

Hunters > Rets
Ret takes mana to heal he does less dps.
Rets buffs are also shared by holy and prot.

Mage > Ele shaman
Ele shaman only has 1 unique totem all can be covered by other specs. Healing decrease dps. Bloodlust all shaman have. And 4000 dps is not 6000 dps.

Death Knight > Rogues
Ya got me thier DK's OP.

Warlock vs Spriest
Shadow priests have to drop form to heal. Spriests share all thier buffs so shush.

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Q u o t e:

My belief is that hybrid classes' damage dealing trees were given good utility originally because they did not bring as much damage to the raids. Now that they are doing as much damage, and they still have those same great utilities, we are going to be out of a job.

---

You lose a bit of credibility here. In order to prop up your argument you're sidestepping the reality of buffs as they currently stand. They don't stack the way they used to, though they are frequently raid-wide. This means that in a 25-man, there's no way the dedicated DPS will suffer for slots. In a 10-man? Well, nobody needs to stack buffs that desperately. You take what you get after you get your tanks and healers and call it good.

As others have pointed out, many of the buffs are also available from your tank and heal-specced versions of the hybrids in question. Certainly not all, but a great many.

And lets be honest with ourselves: most of the time, a good dedicated DPSer still does better damage than their hybrid competition. The margin is close, but still present. I'll concede that's my experience and it may not be yours, but if you disagree with that, then it opens another line of consideration:

How many players of pure DPS classes have been coasting by, confident they didn't have to work very hard to keep their slots by virtue of the fact that in the past, hybrids haven't really competed all that well? I'm not accusing you specifically, but when we're honest with ourselves, sometimes see that the problem doesn't lie without, but within.

Sometimes I see someone doing something better than me and I get annoyed and think, "That sucks, I should be better than they are at that," as if it were some sort of birthright. As illustration I'll use other Druid tanks, since that's what I like doing. When other Druids in my guild started to tank, many of them did it as well or better. They had better gear, more playtime, better aptitude...whatever. The point is that a lot of them started doing what I did better. And so did many protection Paladins. It was then that I realized as hard as I thought I'd been trying, I could have been trying harder. It wasn't until the competition showed up that I saw where I was slacking.

This is to say nothing of the upstarts, the DKs. When I see one of them go between tanking and dps and do it better than I do, I get upset. But the problem isn't the DK, player or class, it's me. The thing is, I still get to go tank, even for groups with DKs and I still get to go dps, even for groups with DKs. People like me and know I'm a good player and that trumps some of what I feel are deficiencies in my chosen class' design.

I suppose all I'm saying is that I don't think the problem is as bad as it is frequently made out to be and that if you have friends in the game, it becomes a virtual non-issue. Can it be frustrating? Absolutely. I feel it too through my own lens. It isn't the end of the line for Rogues, Hunters, Mages, and Warlocks, not by any stretch. And if it starts to happen that those four classes begin to dry up or are denied raid spots due to their class being less than competitive, then rest assured you'll get your buffs or changes or whatever is deemed necessary to bridge the gap.

Don't lose hope. The rest of us still love you crazy DPSers.

qq

DUAL SPECS DO NOT TAKE AWAY RAID SPOTS FROM PURE DPS CLASSES.

Why? You build your raid around healers and tanks, once you have enough, you get dps. The dps, (hybrid or pure) will always be dpsing, so the hybrid dps wont be using his second spec (which will most likely be a pvp one tbh).

However, on some fights you might not need all your healers or tanks. In this case they can use their second spec to dps, however, as they are healers and tanks, pures were never competing for a raid spot with them anyway.

Now lets say a healer leaves, one of the hybrid dps could fill that role, but then a dps spot would be available and could be filled by a pure.

All dual specs will do is make healers and tanks feel usefull when they are not needed for their primary function, and possibly minimize subbing people in and out of the raid to get the correct composition, although I hate guilds that do that anyway. "Sorry, I know you helped tank us to the boss, but this boss only needs one tank, so you are out."

qq or not, if you don't think this will be a legitimate issue, you're deluded.

(clarification: responding to the people who dismiss the argument out of hand, not GC)