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Q u o t e:
But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.

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GC


^^
But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.


unreal..

I laughed so hard I pee'd a little.

Clearly the solution then is to remove all stuns, CC, and silences from rogues, death knights, mages, and paladins.

Epic cluelessness. I suppose it's better to just laugh than to realize he's serious and cry.

to quote another player who has a very good reply:

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Q u o t e:
A healer in the absence of any CC needs to be able to be able to output healing enough to cover damage from two enemy sources at once in order to justify their existence, otherwise it always makes more sense to be replaced with a dps class. CCs are the only thing that should affect this equation at all, and you're saying they shouldn't even be necessary to solo a healer.

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Q u o t e:
GC


^^
But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.


unreal..

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When will they learn that DAMAGE DEALING ALONE TAKES NO SKILL. NONE. ZIP. ZILCH.

The thing that separates PvE from PvP is that you have to use all of your classes abilities to win. Healers trade in most forms of viable damage dealing or return for increased healing and survivability.

If classes that bring utility aren't required to use said utility to win, how much skill will it take for a healer to overcome a DPS that DOES use it? The answer is an insurmountable amount.

The only classes that should be able to win on damage alone are classes that BRING damage alone. Classes like mages, rogues, (ret) paladins, death knights should NOT be able to kill a healer based only on the strength of their burst.

Healers are required to use EVERY (and I mean every) tool in our arsenal to avoid the Gib by double DPS teams that haven't even begun to dip into their spellbook. This makes no sense, and GC's comments are really, really telling.

Goodbye skill, or what little of it used to matter. Class and match up are now the EXCLUSIVE deciding factor in arenas.

Excellent! Can we have one of those "absences" of CC and Silence that GC spoke of?

And whatever including Mortal Strike effects I presume?

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Q u o t e:
The only classes that should be able to win on damage alone are classes that BRING damage alone.

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An issue is all classes have similar DPS capabilities (the PvE balancing priority). So, if, let's say, a ret pally has the DPS to burst a healer down without an interrupt, so to can a rogue have the same level of DPS, but the rogue does have interrupts and more too.

Part of the basic issue of this arena season is that making all classes have equal DPS in PvE and hence in PvP doesn't work well for balance, when they have different survivability and other capabilities.

What they could do in principle is make PvE DPS dependent upon stacking debuffs less applicable in PvP, so then classes could have different levels of PvP DPS. Or they could give everybody an interrupt but tone down DPS for everybody, so ret pallies aren't expected anymore to have a level of DPS sufficient to solo healers without interrupt usage.

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Q u o t e:


An issue is all classes have similar DPS capabilities (the PvE balancing priority). So, if, let's say, a ret pally has the DPS to burst a healer down without an interrupt, so to can a rogue have the same level of DPS, but the rogue does have interrupts and more too.

Part of the basic issue of this arena season is that making all classes have equal DPS in PvE and hence in PvP doesn't work well for balance, when they have different survivability and other capabilities.

What they could do in principle is make PvE DPS dependent upon stacking debuffs less applicable in PvP, so then classes could have different levels of PvP DPS. Or they could give everybody an interrupt but tone down DPS for everybody, so ret pallies aren't expected anymore to have a level of DPS sufficient to solo healers without interrupt usage.

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And this is exactly why homogenization of the classes to such a profound degree was such a horribly short sighted idea.

Meh, if I even rely on blind faith that the current state of the game was not intended, I'm probably just going to cancel.

How can I click pummel If I turn with my mouse?

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Q u o t e:


An issue is all classes have similar DPS capabilities (the PvE balancing priority). So, if, let's say, a ret pally has the DPS to burst a healer down without an interrupt, so to can a rogue have the same level of DPS, but the rogue does have interrupts and more too.

Part of the basic issue of this arena season is that making all classes have equal DPS in PvE and hence in PvP doesn't work well for balance, when they have different survivability and other capabilities.

What they could do in principle is make PvE DPS dependent upon stacking debuffs less applicable in PvP, so then classes could have different levels of PvP DPS. Or they could give everybody an interrupt but tone down DPS for everybody, so ret pallies aren't expected anymore to have a level of DPS sufficient to solo healers without interrupt usage.

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For some classes its not hard to do this as you have very distinct pvp vs pve ability seperation. You won't see any frostfire mages for example in arena (at least not doing well!). The problem arises when classes follow pretty much the same ability and spec usage in pvp and pve.

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Q u o t e:
Clearly the solution then is to remove all stuns, CC, and silences from rogues, death knights, mages, and paladins.

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You sir are bad. And trolling while on a alt. Gratz.

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Q u o t e:
For some classes its not hard to do this as you have very distinct pvp vs pve ability seperation. You won't see any frostfire mages for example in arena (at least not doing well!). The problem arises when classes follow pretty much the same ability and spec usage in pvp and pve.

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Perfect illustration, thank you. Yes, there are a whole variety of means of potentially separating sustained PvE DPS versus burst PvP DPS, one of which is the example of a long-cast-time ability.

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Q u o t e:
How can I click pummel If I turn with my mouse?

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I dont know, its kinda hard
I don't even have pummel on my bar

i still want to kill priests tho
thank god blizzard understands me

Anyone else notice all the CC is given to the damage dealers? Healers, have no arsenal of CC or damage control.

Why is that? Our healing is obviously not enough and no healer brings utility worth sitting out a DPS class. So, Ima thinking...why do healers not have ways to PREVENT damage? Not just healing through it but completely negating it altogether?

Damage dealers can completely shut down any healer class...then kill you before you can heal through their damage. This seems unrealistic to me, even if from a roleplay stand point. Healers should need to be and feel confident when facing a damage dealer. Not weak and pathetic.

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Q u o t e:
Anyone else notice all the CC is given to the damage dealers? Healers, have no arsenal of CC or damage control.

Why is that? Our healing is obviously not enough and no healer brings utility worth sitting out a DPS class. So, Ima thinking...why do healers not have ways to PREVENT damage? Not just healing through it but completely negating it altogether?

Damage dealers can completely shut down any healer class...then kill you before you can heal through their damage. This seems unrealistic to me, even if from a roleplay stand point. Healers should need to be and feel confident when facing a damage dealer. Not weak and pathetic.

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Didn't you hear?
If a 2 button mashing keyboard turning DPS wants to kill you, it should be a viable tactic.
If you have more CC, healers become overpowered since games last longer than 30 seconds.
Damage dealers need to be useful in arenas man

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Q u o t e:
GC


^^
But when all is said and done, there still needs to be a place for damage dealers. Killing a healer, even in the absence of crowd control, silences or whatever, still needs to be a viable tactic at the end of the day.


unreal..

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Yes it needs to be viable, but the converse needs to be viable too. Right now its not.

You guys are too hard on poor ghostcrawler. The guy has to watch what he says more carefully than the president, so it seems.

It only takes half a brain to realize what he meant was that pre-wotlk it was never an option simply kill the healer. It was a mess of mana draining, mortal striking, crowd controlling and intense co-ordination to make that resto druid, or one of his friends drop after season 3.

He wasn't justifying the insane amount of damage people are taking, he was merely saying that the game design needs to change so that we don't have 15 minute 2v2 arena matches because people just don't die.

If he were indeed meaning what you guys have said earlier in this thread, I would completely agree. Healers are having way too much trouble surviving and healing at the moment.