I have a few questions I hope get cleared up regarding exotic pet viability and damage in raids.

I have been reading that on the PTR the Devilsaur and the spirt beast are both still below the scorpid as well as the cat in average dps over a medium length (5 min) fight. Now I am not married to being a BM hunter but I have grown accustom to raiding as BM and find it enjoyable. I also find the new exotic pets and their talents to be fun and an interesting way to keep the BM hunter in the DPS race. However, I do find it rather appalling to some degree to know that the BM 51 talent point needed to tame an exotic pet really offers no benefit damage wise to me as a BM hunter, and actually in most cases taking that talent point and acquiring an exotic pet will end up costing me DPS during the raid.

Now I remember reading somewhere, I believe it was a blue post, that mentioned that there would be a DPS increase of the exotic pets by something around 10%. I also remember reading that they were going to nerf rake and scorpid poison. Have these changes already taken effect? and if they have are there any further plans to buff exotic pet damage or nerf regular pet damage?

It just seems a bit silly to have a 51 talent point, these awesome pets, and extra pet talents but still have exotic pets continue to be out performed DPS wise by the normal cat and scorpid.

I know being a BM hunter that a lot of my damage is coming from my pet, so I was shocked when I first learned about the lack-luster performance of the exotic pets and the 51 BM talent in general. I am though quit perplexed as to why this is still the case on the PTR? I know BM pet damage is getting a nerf overall as well as steady shot, but it would at least be nice to know that as a BM hunter with an exotic pet that my pet will be doing the same or more damage than a BM hunter without one.

The answer is, they STILL have no real idea how OP rake and scorpid poison are and how well they scale with raid buffs.

Which is why those pets are still the best (which is dumb), and why the hunter nerfs are so extensive (which is equally dumb).

If they would just PROPERLY nerf Scorpid Poison and Cat Rake that would be practically all the hunter nerfs that are actually necessary.

Are you aware of the second spirit beast bug where it does not get the 10% damage it should from being a ferocity pet? wasps also suffer from this bug.

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Q u o t e:


The PTR did not have the nerfs to Rake and Scorpid poison. We reduced their AP coefficients. They should still be fine pets, just not head and shoulders above the others. We also fixed a bug where Spirit Strike was not playing well with Longevity (and this bug fix was also likely not on the PTR).

I can't recall off the top of my head the history of the exotic pet damage (i.e. when we made changes relative to data pushes). We increased it a couple of times, though I suspect what you are seeing on the PTR for them is what you will see in 3.0.8.

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Are you ever gonna change Spirit Beast Rarity?

Just removing it from the kill a rare spawn achievement, and removing it's loot table would help tremendously -.-;

It's what's keeping me from leveling my hunter past 72... haha.

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Q u o t e:


Are you ever gonna change Spirit Beast Rarity?

Just removing it from the kill a rare spawn achievement, and removing it's loot table would help tremendously -.-;

It's what's keeping me from leveling my hunter past 72... haha.

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The spirit beast was added specifically to be difficult to get, in response to feedback from many hunters that they enjoyed the challenge and resulting prestige of getting really rare pets.

In order to get this one you have to, you know....hunt for it =P

GC, it is fine for the cats to put out good damage still (as long as they do not dominate to the point that every hunter feels they have to use a cat), but I am greatly concerned about reports that scorpids are still performing well. They are not ferocity pets and it seems to me that any pet that is not ferocity should be underperforming on pure dps and should be intended for other purposes.

Excuse me, you aren't sure?



What? "Likely" wasn't?

I must be confusing you with someone who knows what's going on.

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Q u o t e:


The PTR did not have the nerfs to Rake and Scorpid poison. We reduced their AP coefficients. They should still be fine pets, just not head and shoulders above the others. We also fixed a bug where Spirit Strike was not playing well with Longevity (and this bug fix was also likely not on the PTR).

I can't recall off the top of my head the history of the exotic pet damage (i.e. when we made changes relative to data pushes). We increased it a couple of times, though I suspect what you are seeing on the PTR for them is what you will see in 3.0.8.

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Really GC? We're going to see the gutted BM DPS go live? I hope in saying that you aren't counting all the bugs that are on test right now such as Spirit Beasts not getting their +10% bonus, Kindred Spirits damage bonus not working at all, ect. Also currently not even counting those, BM is now a few hundred DPS behind Marks. Oh, and Survival is a good 1k+ ahead of Marks with the absurd Explosive Shot buff.

Btw, you certainly did reduce the Cat/Scorpid coefficients on test. Only, they're sitll head and shoulders above the rest. Scorpids are still 300+ more than Cats, and Cats are a good 150-200 above the next highest pets. While that is an improvement over the 800+ DPS Scorpids were seeing over Cats, it's still ridiculous.

Why you all -- the developers -- continue to ignore how horrible the 51 point BM talent is just boggles me. Non exotic pets shouldn't even come close to doing the damage that exotic pets do... let alone potentially out damage them.

The four extra pet talent points the talent provides yields NOTHING in the way of a damage increase, either.

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Q u o t e:
Are you aware of the second spirit beast bug where it does not get the 10% damage it should from being a ferocity pet? wasps also suffer from this bug.

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^^

I like raiding with the Spirit beast, but it is not getting the 10% damage it should being a ferocity pet.

This needs to be addressed hopefully in the 3.0.8 patch otherwise those of us who like to raid with the spirit beast will most likely switch back to a cat and it will just sit in the stables til fixed.

Exotic pets should do more damage than normal pets otherwise BM's 51pt talent is for show only. And that shouldn't be the case.

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Q u o t e:


The PTR did not have the nerfs to Rake and Scorpid poison. We reduced their AP coefficients.

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Were they reduced further? The initial build of 3.0.8 had a very minimal nerf for both Rake and Scorpid Poison.

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Q u o t e:
They should still be fine pets, just not head and shoulders above the others.

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Am I to understand this as meaning "We would still like Cats and Scorpids to be the best DPS pets available to Hunter's, just not far and away the best." ? That seems.. rather counter-intuitive to have a 51 point talent based around taming a new class of pet that is then outshined by regular Cats and Scorpids.

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Q u o t e:
We also fixed a bug where Spirit Strike was not playing well with Longevity (and this bug fix was also likely not on the PTR).

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This change has made it to the PTR I'm fairly certain. How about making Spirit Strike work with the rest of the BM Tree (Being able to crit), and fixing Spirit Beasts 10% Ferocity damage bonus? Currently it's not being applied.

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Q u o t e:
I can't recall off the top of my head the history of the exotic pet damage (i.e. when we made changes relative to data pushes). We increased it a couple of times, though I suspect what you are seeing on the PTR for them is what you will see in 3.0.8.

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So is it to late in the deployment cycle of this patch to correct any of the above issues? I know this is sort of a hard-hitting post, but there are many bugs currently with Hunter's on the PTR, and we still have no clear intention from the developers about what exactly we're supposed to do with the 51 point BM Talent, and if it's okay that a Tenacity tree pet is the best DPS pet we have available.

Any comment regarding some or several of these issues would be very very much appreciated Ghostcrawler, I've followed you from Alpha->Beta->Live and really respect the level of transparency you're bringing to the game. Following through on that day to day would be much appreciated.

I agree with all the calls for information. It's very very infrequent that I find cause to post on the forums, but it really would be nice to know what's coming in terms of bug fixes. Specifically, it'd be nice to know the following:

1. Will Exotic pets actually be viable now? They should perform better than regular pets, or else the talent is useless. Does Blizzard agree, and is that being fixed in this patch?

2. Will the Spirit Beast's bugs (besides the Longevity bug) be fixed? Reiterating others' posts, it's not getting the Ferocity buffs it should be, and its special attack can't crit. While Blizzard has said they don't want it to be the be-all-end-all of pets (forcing everyone to think they have to have it), it should at least be closely competitive with other DPS exotics (like devilsaur), which in turn should be significantly ahead of normal pets.

3. Does Blizzard really intend for a Tenacity pet, the Scorpid, to outperform all other pets by hundreds of DPS? Even if the coefficients get nerfed further, if they are nerfed proportionally, then Scorpid will still be better than Cat (and both will be better than exotics), neither of which makes any sense. This completely defeats the purpose of the pet talent trees.

Even if you're done taking suggestions, can we please have a little more *information*?

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Q u o t e:
Are you aware of the second spirit beast bug where it does not get the 10% damage it should from being a ferocity pet? wasps also suffer from this bug.

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GC has already posted that they to extensive testing in all aspects of the game.
They obviously are WELL AWARE of this bug and we should all just sit on our hands and wait for them to determine if it needs to be fixed.
'heh'

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Q u o t e:
This has been reported and posted over 20 times and still has not been acknowledged or fixed.

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But they read all the posts!

With the huge nerfs to BM tree and pets in general, I think the Exotic Pets are dead in the water, since most people will run as SV or MM spec after the new patch comes alive.

With the gross overnerfing of BM, I doubt many people will play it. It's going to be borderline useless outside of having virtually every buff you can stack on your pet up at once.

The problem with the spirit beast rarity is that its the only ferocity exotic that isn't loud obnoxious and stompy (I have no idea if the corehound suffers from the same hitbox issues the devilsaur currently does, though if it does...)