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Q u o t e:


They are going to do pet dps the right way. No more scaling based one set of math for buffs and another for gear. This will allow pet scaling to become more normalized along the gear continuum. Probably something along the lines of no more buffs for pets but a better ratio based on hunter attack power than the current 22 percent.

They will also most likely implement the hinted at ammo changes.

Both of these changes will probably result in a net buff to hunters based on what most are aware is going to be an abysmal performance between now and 3.1.

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I was thinkin' the same thing. We'll probably also see damage cap traps come back as well.

Maybe we'll get some streamlining in Survival for a change...

Are the hinted at Ammo changes for hunters only, or everyone?

Are we getting a seperate paperdoll slot for our Ammo bags/quivers, giving us back a bag slot too?

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Q u o t e:
I mentioned Ulduar because I suspected hunters would say "Our dps may be okay now but it won't scale." That may be true, but we are planning making some other changes to hunters so we will have a chance to reevaluate scaling before Ulduar ships. We're not ready to share these other change with you, in part because if we end up not going through with the changes players will be "sad" (which I use as a euphamism). Many of the changes we're talking about are designed to make hunters more fun to play, so you shouldn't be scared of them.

Blizzard has always had long term plans for every class and we still do. Perhaps we haven't always been as forthcoming about those plans as I have been lately. But you shouldn't intrepret the fact that we have long term plans to mean that we think your class is horribly broken and shipped it in a horribly broken state.

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Any pvp changes planned for 3.1 as well, considering 3.08 nerfs the most popular arena spec hunters have atm?

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Q u o t e:
We're not ready to share these other change with you, in part because if we end up not going through with the changes players will be "sad".

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All I read there is they are not willing to share the changed because they know they will be ripped apart.

The only fly in the ointment is STILL that mages are doing damage right up there with hunters, I do 2.5-3k DPSin 10 man Naxx, admittedly, I don't use Aspect of the Beast or the BW/Readiness trick. (My Mages typically pull the same DPS, higher when mine is, lower when we all have to move.) But what you are saying right now, is we have to accept not being a DPS contender until Uludar because we are getting changes in Uludar when we have NO idea when Uludar is. When you alienate customers, players and loyal fans while saying 'wait and see', it is not a fair, balanced or player conscious decision process. This is especially true when you do not treat all classes the same in the buff/nerf process.

Yes, the game is constantly changing, yes we love that about it. No, change for it's own sake or change 'based on possibilities in the future' are not what I want my class to be based around.

I want to be a viable, contending DPS class on competitive fights where skill matters. I would preferably like to do that as the spec I love and with the pet I have taken everywhere for 80 levels. If you can HONESTLY say, that after the nerfs and before 3.1 Hunters are going to be exactly that, not behind mages and not incredibly far ahead of mages. (I love my mages.) Then I will be satisfied, if you CANNOT, then something is wrong in the process.

P.S. Warlocks need some PvE love.

Thanks for the response GC. For now, it looks like we will have to play the wait and see game.

In the mean time, once 3.08 ships and we get a chance to evaluate the changes, we can truly assess how well you guys did in trying to correct perceived problems with the class.

Just a quick question... if you guys plan on making sweeping changes to the hunter class in 3.1, was it REALLY necessary to make ALL of the current planned changes?

He's been hinting at changing arrows for a while now.

I bet arrows will turn into a libram/relic/etc style item, which is the impression I got from one or two of his ramblings. (good ramblings, not stupid ones)

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Q u o t e:
I mentioned Ulduar because I suspected hunters would say "Our dps may be okay now but it won't scale." That may be true, but we are planning making some other changes to hunters so we will have a chance to reevaluate scaling before Ulduar ships. We're not ready to share these other change with you, in part because if we end up not going through with the changes players will be "sad" (which I use as a euphamism). Many of the changes we're talking about are designed to make hunters more fun to play, so you shouldn't be scared of them.

Blizzard has always had long term plans for every class and we still do. Perhaps we haven't always been as forthcoming about those plans as I have been lately. But you shouldn't intrepret the fact that we have long term plans to mean that we think your class is horribly broken and shipped it in a horribly broken state.

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How much would one have to pay to learn of the... oh let's say, fury warrior plans, for the near to distant future? Hypatheticly speaking, ofcourse. :)

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Q u o t e:
All I read there is they are not willing to share the changed because they know they will be ripped apart.

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That would be the description of a minor neurosis. Please go away. You're not helping.



Hey, GC- question for you, if you don't mind. I like the pet improvements as a whole, I think most people do, but are the developers entirely pleased with gorillas being the only real viable AOE solo pet? I like the gorilla's functionality in that regard, but... not a huge fan of gorillas.

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Q u o t e:
I mentioned Ulduar because I suspected hunters would say "Our dps may be okay now but it won't scale." That may be true, but we are planning making some other changes to hunters so we will have a chance to reevaluate scaling before Ulduar ships. We're not ready to share these other change with you, in part because if we end up not going through with the changes players will be "sad" (which I use as a euphamism). Many of the changes we're talking about are designed to make hunters more fun to play, so you shouldn't be scared of them.

Blizzard has always had long term plans for every class and we still do. Perhaps we haven't always been as forthcoming about those plans as I have been lately. But you shouldn't intrepret the fact that we have long term plans to mean that we think your class is horribly broken and shipped it in a horribly broken state.

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Ooo-er, euphemism is spelled wrong!! GC must be planning something really major!!! Look out, Hunters and Warlocks are getting nerfed. Again! And so is the Pope!!!!!!

It must be a conspiracy, or I drank more Scotch than I thought...

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Q u o t e:
I mentioned Ulduar because I suspected hunters would say "Our dps may be okay now but it won't scale." That may be true, but we are planning making some other changes to hunters so we will have a chance to reevaluate scaling before Ulduar ships. We're not ready to share these other change with you, in part because if we end up not going through with the changes players will be "sad" (which I use as a euphamism). Many of the changes we're talking about are designed to make hunters more fun to play, so you shouldn't be scared of them.

Blizzard has always had long term plans for every class and we still do. Perhaps we haven't always been as forthcoming about those plans as I have been lately. But you shouldn't intrepret the fact that we have long term plans to mean that we think your class is horribly broken and shipped it in a horribly broken state.

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If by sad you mean frothing at the mouth at the numbers on their spreadsheets....

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Q u o t e:
I read the post. I read them all.

I recently addressed some of the pet questions in another thread.

We know there are some problems with the geometry of the Org Arena. We have fixed many of them.

In our most recent testing BM and MM were neck and neck and Survival was probably a little high. We might tone down Explosive Shot before it goes out the door.

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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Then your tests are off. You're probably running tests in ideal gear, with ideal buffs, to test the maximum potential in a raid situation. You aren't looking at sub-80 and sub-T7 gear and how these major nerfs are grinding lower geared hunters into oblivion.

Try this. Test unbuffed BM DPS on Live. Test, in the same setting/gear/etc. unbuffed BM on Test. I've done those tests, and the decrease is FAR more than you imply that you are getting from your "internal testing".

You're nerfing the BASE talents like Kindred Spirits and Unleashed Fury, rather than going to the source of the problem - party raid buffs like Blessing of Might making hunter pets massively overpowered. It's got to be the most idiotic solution I've seen - and despite multiple hunters, including myself (see my signature) giving you superior alternatives that have LONG TERM SOLUTION in mind - you have continued to apparently ignore these ideas. When will you guys get the point - use ideas that many have suggested - like retooling pet stat scaling from hunter stats (including buffs hunters get), and removing hunter pet buffing ENTIRELY for spells with longer than 3 minutes in duration.

It's incredibly frustrating to offer a more viable solution, and to watch it patently ignored even though nearly every hunter that frequents these boards or other theorycrafting boards can see the writing on the wall.

P.S. And your "response" in the other thread about pet stuff was about pets getting the WRONG buffs - not pets being overpowered by buffs. You don't even seem to know what the difference is.

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Q u o t e:
I mentioned Ulduar because I suspected hunters would say "Our dps may be okay now but it won't scale." That may be true, but we are planning making some other changes to hunters so we will have a chance to reevaluate scaling before Ulduar ships. We're not ready to share these other change with you, in part because if we end up not going through with the changes players will be "sad" (which I use as a euphamism). Many of the changes we're talking about are designed to make hunters more fun to play, so you shouldn't be scared of them.

Blizzard has always had long term plans for every class and we still do. Perhaps we haven't always been as forthcoming about those plans as I have been lately. But you shouldn't intrepret the fact that we have long term plans to mean that we think your class is horribly broken and shipped it in a horribly broken state.

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oh dear god its going to fubar us even more

please blizzard hire someone from the hunter forums, they seem to know more about the hunter class than you guys do.

but choose someone competent

I'm hoping (and think very possibly) like was said above, that they will just make pets scale better with our gear and buffs, and not have them receive their own buffs. This makes way more sense anyway, and I won't have to yell at my pallies to give my pet might anymore.

Now, as far as our mechanics and overhaul go with our style of play, it can go one of two ways. 1. They could bork us like the warlock overhaul (and we would suck really, really bad in pvp) or 2. We could get a lot of awesome changes like pallies instead of being a joke in pvp (don't talk about double BW, that doesn't exist in a few weeks).

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Q u o t e:
We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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you tease

So.... let me get this straight.

You made changes, hastily in fact because you wanted to finish the Hunter changes and move on.
Yet now you're already talking about coming right back to Hunters and changing them again two patches from now.

Que?

edit: Devs seem to have such a hard time balancing all 3 trees for most classes because a set of gear could be good for one spec but either godly or cruddy for the others.
How about make some gear that requires you to be a certain spec? I dunno... I'm just getting more and more frustrated with this "long term plans" thing. "Long term" so far has been, as stated many times, 4 seasons of arena's worth of time.

edit the second: wasn't the point of upping instant damage while nerfing casted damage to make us more viable on the move without super charging us while stationary? seriously... my teammates were lower geared than i was and doing more damage. only time I got anywhere near the tops of the charts was using volley on large quantities on huge groups of mobs.

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Q u o t e:
So.... let me get this straight.

You made changes, hastily in fact because you wanted to finish the Hunter changes and move on.
Yet now you're already talking about coming right back to Hunters and changing them again two patches from now.

Que?

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To be fair, no one honestly expect 3.1 until march.

And fyi. 3.1 =! 2 patches from 3.0.8.
You can have 3.0.9
3.0.10 Yes, TEN
3.0.11
3.0.12

Catch my drift.

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Q u o t e:
To be fair, no one honestly expect 3.1 until march.

And fyi. 3.1 =! 2 patches from 3.0.8.
You can have 3.0.9
3.0.10 Yes, TEN
3.0.11
3.0.12

Catch my drift.

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Well only two patches have been announced, so I went with two. I see your point however.