Hunter concerns have been captured by Chulak. Some folks believe that you will not answer these questions or even read this post.

I say "shenanigans". Please take the time to read the questions and if possible provide some response to these concerns.

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Q u o t e:
[EDITED to include some items I didn't originally mention that were brought up in this thread, a couple are PVP as well]

I don't generally do "@GC" threads, but I'm hoping to at least collect a lot of the hunter PVE concerns in one place here. With 3.08 on the PTR for a while now, there are several fairly fundamental questions regarding the changes to hunter PVE that are coming up repeatedly both here and in the Hunter forums. I am attempting to provide a concise list of basic questions in hopes that GC will choose to address them. In any case, I know he'll read the thread like he does all the rest. These are things that have been repeatedly coming up in my conversations with other hunters.

As a class we are very concerned about what the upcoming changes will bring, and I believe a lot of that is created by confusion and a lack of understanding of the Devs' goals and intentions. Some of these items may be things players think are bugs, but are actually WAI. I'm going to ask all the trolls to please be silent here. I would rather the thread not devolve into a QQfest, as that doesn't serve anyone.

-- We are seeing a 20-25% drop in raid buffed BM DPS on the PTR. Is this in line with your design intent for these changes?

-- Explosive shot is performing well, and many are concerned that after what is looking like it will be a mass migration to Survival for raid DPS that it will end up getting nerfed as well. Is Explosive Shot performing per design intent?

-- Focused Aim does not benefit pets. Is this working as intended?

-- The growth of the Devilsaur hitbox as Monstrous Bite stacks is a severe liability in a large number of PVE scenarios. Has there been any discussion regarding removing the growth associated with MB?

-- T7 stat budgeting is extremely heavy on Haste but devoid of Hit. Is this likely to continue with T8?

-- Is the Spirit Beast perfoming in line with design intent?

-- The 50/21 build resulted in stronger hunter representation in Arena than we have ever seen in the past. It had to be nerfed for PVE reasons, but a lot of PVP hunters are feeling like the first thing they've seen to make them viable is being snatched away without anything to replace it. Has the success of 50/21 in Arena caused you to have any new ideas regarding hunter PVP?

-- [added] Pets are currently bugging out on the elevators in Orgrimmar arena, posting mainly to notify you that there is a problem.

-- [added] Currently if multiple scorpid pets are in a raid they share the same stack of Scorpid Poison. Is this working as intended?

-- BM Arena viability is ending and it is looking like PVE viability is ending as well. Please note that when I say "viability is ending" I am referring to the many dedicated raiders who will spec the max DPS spec regarless of how much they enjoy it. How would you address the feeling in the community that BM is being made obsolete?

-- (Less concise, possible long answer if you choose to take the time). We are confused regarding what type of mark you're trying to hit with our DPS. You've stated that you have to react to your numbers first and foremost, which of course makes sense, but we have to react to our numbers as well (some of us in a more mature fashion than others =D). You stated recently that your numbers include scenarios that we don't necessarily see, such as absolute maximum performance at maximum gearing.

As a matter of design philosophy, how do you choose the location of the target? It seems that balancing around the absolute maximums creates balance around a place only a tiny percentage of the population will ever encounter and thus a necessary imbalance at most/all other levels. I'm not a Realm First guild leader, but I'm towards the higher end of the curve as a realm 3rd-4th guild leader. We had Naxx 25 cleared a month after the Xpac was released using a total of about 45 raiders as we raid more casually than the bleeding edge guilds. The recent BM nerfs seem to be trying to balance us around a theoretical point that I'm not even within sight of less the 50/21 spec and CotW stacking.

If that's the balance point then so be it, I'm just hoping to understand the "how and why" a bit better.

Thank you for reading.

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Q u o t e:
I read the post. I read them all.

I recently addressed some of the pet questions in another thread.

We know there are some problems with the geometry of the Org Arena. We have fixed many of them.

In our most recent testing BM and MM were neck and neck and Survival was probably a little high. We might tone down Explosive Shot before it goes out the door.

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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Zomg first

Thanks for the confirmation on ES. Let's hope its not too much of a tone-down. I kind of like what the current figure is

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Q u o t e:
we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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care to elaborate?

=)

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Q u o t e:
I read the post. I read them all.

I recently addressed some of the pet questions in another thread.

We know there are some problems with the geometry of the Org Arena. We have fixed many of them.

In our most recent testing BM and MM were neck and neck and Survival was probably a little high. We might tone down Explosive Shot before it goes out the door.

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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3.1 News? Come on man! Out with it.

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Q u o t e:
We might tone down Explosive Shot before it goes out the door.

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wat

Uhm comparing BM to MM and surv isnt the problem. Are you comparing 3.0.8 hunters with mages and dks? no of course not cause the truth is most other classes are pulling ahead of hunters. So dont compare a Honda to another Honda when there are Ferrari's and Porsche's around and say everything is equal now.

Also hundreds of hunters have run tests on the PTR and its pretty much universal that the bm spec is no where near MM or Surv. So either you're testing on a different PTR or the rest of us are just plain incompetent.

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Q u o t e:
I read the post. I read them all.

I recently addressed some of the pet questions in another thread.

We know there are some problems with the geometry of the Org Arena. We have fixed many of them.

In our most recent testing BM and MM were neck and neck and Survival was probably a little high. We might tone down Explosive Shot before it goes out the door.

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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GC, not every hunter cares about 25-man full raid damange output.
What about 5-man? or 10-man? on live server, I do not feel like I am OP in either and usually when running 5-man with paly and/or DK they are both within 50-100dps and very often in top position.

The same goes in 10-man naxx? Some fights are so pet unfriendly that I am far from being top dps and on the fights that are very competetive, other classes are within a resonable 5% of top dps classes?

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Q u o t e:
wat

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Sigh sit in terrible worry till the new ES comes out now. Back to leveling the DK

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Q u o t e:
I read the post. I read them all.

I recently addressed some of the pet questions in another thread.

We know there are some problems with the geometry of the Org Arena. We have fixed many of them.

In our most recent testing BM and MM were neck and neck and Survival was probably a little high. We might tone down Explosive Shot before it goes out the door.

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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what does neck and neck mean? 5 dps, 50 dps or 200 dps difference?

First page of awesome thread where Hunters are told changes are coming in 3.1

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Q u o t e:
...because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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Might this have to do with a change with ammo mechanics you mentioned in a previous post?

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Q u o t e:

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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I bet you're gonna be bugged with questions about this, so best try to cover as many questions as possible in one thread.

1) Changing it for the better or worse? I know your ammo change might be a part of it, but will we be coming out in a better position rather than the speculated post nerf?

2) Will pet scaling be changed at all? You hinted at this, but will it come to light?

3) Is steady shot going to be affected and most likely the Marksman tree since a lot of talents affect/rely on steady shot?

4) Are you guys revamping all three trees so we aren't pigeoned into this spec X to be the most effective dps?

5) Reviewing Lackluster talents will also be part of this change?

I'm excited to hear it, and only wonder what you could be getting at.

(p.s. Could you lower the cooldown on Savage Rend for the raptor please? :D)

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Q u o t e:


We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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huh?...is anyone else feelin like a confused huntard other than me?

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Q u o t e:
First page of awesome thread where Hunters are told changes are coming in 3.1

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This could also mean more nerfs coming are on a way...

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Q u o t e:

We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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Wow, Sorry hunters :( If i read that right, I feel really bad for you or you're going to be really OP. Either way.....wow.

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Q u o t e:


This could also mean more nerfs coming are on a way...

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I had the same sinking feeling in my stomach too. Guess time to finally give up resisting and go DK. I bet for a good change to hunter ammo, there are several core changes to hunters that knock the DPS into a loop for sometime.

I was looking to patch 3.1. Now i am not so sure

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Q u o t e:
I
We think with these changes, hunter PvE damage will be in line with other dps classes. We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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Hunter's dps is already very competetive and should not be altered if you want us to stay competetive.

on the side note, - do you KNOW or you THINK you know? I am really sceptical how you make changes and then you just say, you think? Either you know and you got tons of numbers to proof that (of course those we will never see), or you have no clue, and you (just like you said) you only think we (hunters) be inline which is of casue a yesterdays news since most dps classes are already catching up to us and we are no longer in top spot for dps anymore.

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Q u o t e:
We're not concerned about scaling at higher gear levels because we are changing hunter damage enough for 3.1 that we will have to rebalance them anyway.

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This is pretty cryptic. Please don't leave us hanging until 3.1 to explain what this means. Please.