Yes. Even feral druids can do 8k or more ferocious bites.

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Q u o t e:
In a world with low resilience, it is perhaps unsurprising that classes that combine burst damage with so many tools for avoiding damage would be powerful.

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Although a past thread posted about the top ten 2v2 players having only 389 average resilience, that was through voluntarily not focusing primarily on resilience gear. Some people (many at lower ratings) have double that resilience already.

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Q u o t e:
In the interest of encouraging discussion, I am going to pose a question below.

Caveats: Please don't derail this thread. It it liable to get long. Also please do not take my comments out of context or attempt to read too much between the lines. I hate having to communicate like a politician. :(

The same classes keep coming up in Arena discussions: rogues, mages, death knights and paladins. In a world with low resilience, it is perhaps unsurprising that classes that combine burst damage with so many tools for avoiding damage would be powerful.

Let's set aside the discussion of these classes for a moment (and to be fair, it is probably specs, not classes). My question is this: In an Arena match in which none of those 4 are participating, do you feel that damage is too high *given* that it will only come down once players acquire more resilience?

If you can't tell, I am trying to get the community to explore whether it is those classes or damage in general that is causing so much consternation.

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This is a bit "chicken or the egg" because it is those classes that are bursting everyone. And, yes, damage is too high - particularly the classes you mentioned.

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Q u o t e:
If you can't tell, I am trying to get the community to explore whether it is those classes or damage in general that is causing so much consternation.

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Damage in general.

However; those classes are the prime culprits because they have very high on demand burst combined with the capability to heavily mitigate any burst put into them. So they can blow someone up without having to worry about being blown up.

Burst would still be too high. If those classes are out, then it would be DPS druids, warriors, and hunters (with the new EShot). Maybe Destruction warlocks too. All of those classes are capable of high burst damage as well. Most of them lack the ability to avoid it, which would make matches even shorter.

It would still favor an environment in which doing more damage is almost always the better option over CC/interrupts/utility.

Yes, pretty much all the classes who have direct damage ability do large chunks of direct damage.

I have 750 resilience and those 4 classes give me substantially more trouble (read: autoloss most of the time) than the other 6 classes, no matter what spec the other 6 classes are.

I'm a 2 time gladiator, so I know how to play this game. The keyboard turning, skill clicking arcane droolcups have to press 3 buttons to take me down. The backpedaling, DBZ hair ret paladins have to press 3 buttons to take me down. The mutilate spamming rogues that don't even cc me with stuns make sure I can't do anything thanks to deadly jew, er I mean, brew. The death knights with their 2 pets, a stun, 10 shield walls, and hot-removing attacks cannot be killed, ever, while I'm struggling to live against 4k scourge strikes.

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Q u o t e:
My question is this: In an Arena match in which none of those 4 are participating, do you feel that damage is too high *given* that it will only come down once players acquire more resilience?

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Damage to too high right now, and will remain so even with the damage reduction provided by resilience because damage started off way too high.

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Q u o t e:
My question is this: In an Arena match in which none of those 4 are participating, do you feel that damage is too high *given* that it will only come down once players acquire more resilience?

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Not even a little. When those classes are absent, the thought that went into Wotlk arena really shines, and those matches are the only thing that keep me from quitting arena.

I really hope you find away to tune down damage because it's ruining all the hard work you put into this great expansion.

It's abit of both.

The classes you mentioned are the ones who are ripping everyone apart with their burst, while having ways to tone down/avoid burst themselves...hence why their dominating.

But other classes (feral druids included) are also able to put out a pretty high amount of damage in a short period of time. The difference is the other classes don't have a way to avoid the incoming burst do they're not dominating like ret pallies (bubble), mages (ice block), DKs (bone armor, IBF, AMS/AMZ). rogues (evasion, blind, vanish, stuns, etc, etc).

Part of the problem is those classes can also unload all that damage while your stunned and/or before you can react (arcane mages) and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Other classes can still burst, but they can't lock you down nearly as well at the same time...so you at least have the illusion that your fighting back.

when 2 of those class grouped in arena, damage are insane

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Q u o t e:


This is a bit "chicken or the egg" because it is those classes that are bursting everyone. And, yes, damage is too high - particularly the classes you mentioned.

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he said in a match where none of those 4 classes are present.


i would say yes but as i play a mage and a rogue 1 of those classes will always be present.

Yes. I find any class is doing too much damage to me. I have 707 resilience, 25k health unbuffed, specced as 52/19/0 haunt/sl, and I'm getting destroyed. Doesn't matter which class tbh, although yes the ones you mention are doing the most. But I have seen even hunter PETS kill me. I could be los'ing the hunter while beastial wrath is up and his pet is critting me for 2k.

Or his pet could be on my pally healer and the hunter on me, my healer has to keep healing me that whole time meanwhile the hunter pet is burning a holy pally a class with plate and a shield and 500 resil and in a matter of 20 seconds the pally is almost dead from his pet. I've been crit by feral druids for 9k, with 707 resil (although no soul link). So with soul link it would be like 8k. I'm still being killed in a matter of gcd's.

Edit: Resilience will not fix the rogue/mage burst problem. So don't think it will GC, because even with max resil out comes new weapons with 200 more top end. It's just not going to help. Dps trains atm take no skill. All you have to do to win is have a higher proc rate on your crit rng. CC is useless, healing is useless, don't even consider mana drains.

My opinion may not be what you're asking for since I've only play in the BGs since WotLK, but I'm going to offer it anyway.

I have the crafted cloth pvp set + quest rewards for gear. I have a scrolling combat text trigger that pops up for every hit I take that is greater than 2.5k. I get burst down by every class, but the ones you listed burst me down consistently while the rest only do it on occasion.

I die a lot. In TBC I got to about 325 resilience on 2 characters playing a disc priest and resto druid in the BGs. In my opinion resilience will probably make a decent difference if you exclude the class you've listed.

Edit: If you were asking about resilience being too much of a requirement excluding the four classes listed I would say 'sort of'. One of the most frustrating things for me is the time investment it takes to obtain a baseline set of resilience gear. It's part of the reason I won't even attempt arenas yet.

BTW I found it difficult to figure out exactly what you're asking (maybe it was intentional).

Edit 2: Don't put too much stock in my opinion. My experience could simply be the result of there being a lot more DKs, rogues, mages and paladins in the BGs than the other classes.

Sure any class can burst damage, but the ones mentioned can do it while avoiding damage, and not just avoid damage but get the chance to use there burst damage...