World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Are you kidding me? Seriously?

Miyalol

Arena Tournament 1

0. Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 08:53:40 PM PST

Are you kidding me? Is this a very early, and unwelcome April Fools?

Q u o t e:
It's likely the game would devolve into silencing or CC'ing the healer and specs that rely on doing a lot of damage would be shut out as gear improved.

That's what made this game take skill. I don't know if your intention is to make it require less skill, so that, despite the differences in skill between players, we move closer to your ideal pvp scenario where everyone loses half the time:

Q u o t e:
If the PvP matchmaking is working well, however, you will lose 50% of every match...

Teams with high skill levels in earlier seasons could attain perfect, or near-perfect win/loss records, while battling their way to the top. Now, not so much.

The skill in this game comes from maximizing your class's potential, using your abilities to the best of their ability. )You should know this, you made Starcraft, one of the highest skillcapped games in existence, and look how well that did!) And yet here we are, all it takes to maximize your class' potential is 3-4 abilities. Tops. I don't know if you guys watch PvP videos over there, but take a look at a few, see what the game used to be like. I recommend Hoodrych, Neilyo, Hydra, Emolol, any of their later stuff.

At the very least, acknowledge that the pvp game isn't as skillful or fun as it used to be, don't act like this doesn't need fixing, and don't pretend that resilience will be enough, because it sure wasn't during 3.0.

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Chosmash

< Malevolent >

Smolderthorn

2. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 08:57:49 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Um. Whats this thread about?

GC just stated something really silly, and got called on it.

Osgiliath

Arathor

3. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 08:59:12 PM PST

Q u o t e:

GC just stated something really silly, and got called on it.

I wouldn't say being trolled by some dumb kid with "lol" in their name is being called on anything.

ibd

[ Post edited by Osgiliath ]

Miyalol

Arena Tournament 1

4. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 09:00:53 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Um. Whats this thread about?

It's about the situation with PvP, and it being a problem that needs looking at. Hurrrrrr

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Grimmsh

< Óblivion >

Mannoroth

6. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 09:24:43 PM PST

So let me get what Ghostcrawler is saying.

For every 10 matches, there should be 5 matches you cannot win.

Isn't that precisly what balance ISN'T? Having Rock always beat Scissors who always beats Paper isn't balance. Balance is when Rock and Scissors and Paper are all very unique yet all are all capable of beating eachother....

Loudnoises

< Civilian >

Bonechewer

7. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 09:31:38 PM PST

Methinks you need to re-read his entire post, and not over analyze just a few out of context quotes.

Turning all against the one is an art that’s hard to teach
Another clever word sets off an unsuspecting herd
And as you step back into line a mob jumps to their feet

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

8. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 09:53:18 PM PST

Q u o t e:

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Q u o t e:
If the PvP matchmaking is working well, however, you will lose 50% of every match...
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Teams with high skill levels in earlier seasons could attain perfect, or near-perfect win/loss records, while battling their way to the top. Now, not so much.

My point was that when the matchmaking is working well, it will pit you against players very close to your skill level. Playing players very close to your skill level increases the chance you will lose. The point is actually not to have the 2000+ players mowing their way through scrubs. It's to pair off the best teams against each other so that getting e.g. Gladiator means something.

What I was actually getting at though was a loftier sentiment that players run through quests or an instance and one-shot everything and then go into PvP and can lose a lot. It's a very different experience, and psychologically I think it affects players more than they give it credit for. (If you are highly-ranked or don't even play PvE much then it likely affects you a lot less.)

Killian

< L Jackson >

Black Dragonflight

9. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 09:55:08 PM PST

Q u o t e:

My point was that when the matchmaking is working well, it will pit you against players very close to your skill level. Playing players very close to your skill level increases the chance you will lose. The point is actually not to have the 2000+ players mowing their way through scrubs. It's to pair off the best teams against each other so that getting e.g. Gladiator means something.

What I was actually getting at though was a loftier sentiment that players run through quests or an instance and one-shot everything and then go into PvP and can lose a lot. It's a very different experience, and psychologically I think it affects players more than they give it credit for. (If you are highly-ranked or don't even play PvE much then it likely affects you a lot less.)

Does that mean you're going to make pve harder?

Look, I'm a lazy person and I read a lot of forum posts.

-GC

Getz

< Defiance >

Shadowsong

10. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 09:57:29 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Does that mean you're going to make pve harder?

They've already stated this before. And if you check the history of WoW, let's say Vanilla, AQ40 was hard, the Naxx was plenty harder on some encounters. In other words, this expansion will get harder when time progresses.

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Bruscha

< Ascent >

Thrall

11. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:01:35 PM PST

Q u o t e:
If the PvP matchmaking is working well, however, you will lose 50% of every match...

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't the entire purpose of a matchmaking system to match people who are as close to even as possible? Wouldn't that imply that if the system is working you should win roughly 1/2 of your games once you hit your skill plateu?

Wintergrasp has become the pvp of choice for my lock.

Mainly because when I'm in a vehicle or gun I can actually live long enough to kill people.

Alita

< Delirium >

Darkspear

12. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:05:08 PM PST

Q u o t e:

They've already stated this before. And if you check the history of WoW, let's say Vanilla, AQ40 was hard, the Naxx was plenty harder on some encounters. In other words, this expansion will get harder when time progresses.

You say this, but I remember Scarlet Monastery being alot harder than Utgarde Pinnacle was for me when I rolled into WOTLK.

I remember Blood Furnace being a hell of alot harder than the Nexus ever was, even on heroic when TBC opened up.

This isn't the point of the thread, but watch your "check the history of WoW" comments, not everyone sees the game as you do. Almost every guild out there will only say it's gotten "easier" as WoW progresses, not harder.

As for PvP, I remember when I could fight two people and have it take time and patience. I remember when people could run away from a battle. I remember a 2 on 2 out in the open world being the fight for your life out in Silithus or Eastern Plaguelands.

Now it's over in seconds. SPLAT, it's done. PvP is harder, but not in the way I think ANYONE in Vanilla could have wanted it. It's freaking insane right now.

[ Post edited by Alita ]

Hawkins

< Noble Lords >

Anetheron

13. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:07:29 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't the entire purpose of a matchmaking system to match people who are as close to even as possible? Wouldn't that imply that if the system is working you should win roughly 1/2 of your games once you hit your skill plateu?

Yup, that's the purpose of it. You got it. The NFL calls it parity but in WoW it's a stupid idea? Some people are a little slow. Just give them time to catch up. :)

Juneko

Eonar

14. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:07:52 PM PST

scarlet monastery was hard because no one knew how to play. Utgarde pinnacle is hard to people that don't know how to play.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

15. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:10:05 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't the entire purpose of a matchmaking system to match people who are as close to even as possible? Wouldn't that imply that if the system is working you should win roughly 1/2 of your games once you hit your skill plateu?

Yeah, this is what I was trying to say. Even if you are awesome, you will still lose a lot. (In a perfect world. It doesn't always happen.)

Killian

< L Jackson >

Black Dragonflight

16. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:10:16 PM PST

Q u o t e:
scarlet monastery was hard because no one knew how to play. Utgarde pinnacle is hard to people that don't know how to play.

I mean...ppl knew how to play and lets face it, when was the last itme you saw cc in wotlk?

Look, I'm a lazy person and I read a lot of forum posts.

-GC

Bobet

< CRUSADERS OF DEATH >

Thrall

18. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:17:45 PM PST

Q u o t e:

PvE has never, ever, ever been as easy as it is now. Character progression is dead in this game. It used to be that the game only began once you hit level cap...you had to actually work to make your toon better. Now it's pretty much over in 2 weeks or less.

Its over in two weeks for people that spend alot of time playing the game.

I think for the casual player, the current system is actually very rewarding. I actually find it kind of cool that I can log in and get into a 10/25 man Arch or Sarth that is pugged. Or even over the weekends able to get in a pug Naxx.

I know alot of people hate the current system. Many of my guildies that casual and hardcore alike think that gear is to easy to get now. However I think while gear is easier to get, there is still some seperation between the truly dedicated and those just loggin on occasionally. I think and WoTLK progresses this will be become even more apparent.

Kharvey

< Glock Nine >

Shadowmoon

19. Re: Are you kidding me? Seriously? 12/27/2008 10:20:08 PM PST

Gear was only "hard" to get if you consider having the free time to raid for a few hours on week nights a skill.

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