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Q u o t e:
lol haste has always been awesome for ret paladins... they have the fewest non-auto attacks in the game to work with. at one time they only had TWO clickable attacks..going back farther, before haste, they only had judgement and auto-attack+seals.

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I wouldn't say it's awesome, it's decent. It only increases white damage, and Seal of the Martyr damage, which procs off of white swings, together they usually make up about 1/3rd of my damage. I'm not complaining about it, it's a dps increase, but the point I'm making to the OP is yeah, it's not ideal, I'd gladly trade that out for crit like he wants too, I'd get double the dps per point of rating I have in haste back with making that change.

But, I'd say it's a stretch to go as far as he has to say it's useless. He's on a slippery slope, they change it for DK's, and then you'd have every other class that doesn't scale that well with haste (which there are a lot), would be here wanting the stats changed as well because we scale better with something else.

Edit: Obligatory First, blame GC for posting seconds before me

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Q u o t e:

It goes by how many attacks you're going to do per minute. Less blows per minute means more crits if you have enough crit chance. When you have something that procs, that increases the likelihood it is going to crit.

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If I have a 50% crit chance and I attack 100 times in a minute it would stand to reason that I would crit 50 times in that minute, assuming i dont have overly bad or good luck.

If I have 50% crit chance and add a haste buff and attack 130 times in a minute it would stand to reason that I would crit 65 times per minute.

Haven't the blues already made it clear that bad itemization is intentional?

Also haste is good for DW builds ( which is getting a pretty substantial buff next patch )

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Q u o t e:
We are looking at the benefits of haste (or lack thereof) for all melee right now. If anything there aren't enough stats available to make items distinct, so rather than swap out a less desirable stat with a more desirable one, we'd rather make the less desirable one desirable.

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If you're going to want to make haste a desireable stat, maybe make it affect how fast we regain our runes. Every other melee uses haste to increase their damage output but DK only have it as a meh stats. Heck even being in unholy presence sucks sometimes because it has a really awkward rotation in PVE. It would increase DK dps if you make haste increase runes activity. But not really sure if you really want to increase DK dps atm .........

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Q u o t e:


If I have a 50% crit chance and I attack 100 times in a minute it would stand to reason that I would crit 50 times in that minute, assuming i dont have overly bad or good luck.

If I have 50% crit chance and add a haste buff and attack 130 times in a minute it would stand to reason that I would crit 65 times per minute.

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Your Crit chance, as well as procs, is total attacks.

This means the number of Strikes a Death knight pulls off is apart of this number of strikes.

If I want my strikes and procs to crit, not my auto-attack, I want a slow two-hand weapon.

But even then, I still want those whites to crit as often as they can too.

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Q u o t e:
We are looking at the benefits of haste (or lack thereof) for all melee right now. If anything there aren't enough stats available to make items distinct, so rather than swap out a less desirable stat with a more desirable one, we'd rather make the less desirable one desirable.

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*gasp*

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Q u o t e:


*shakes his head*

You don't understand how crits work.

It goes by how many attacks you're going to do per minute. Less blows per minute means more crits if you have enough crit chance, as you are doing less blows per minute. When you have something that procs, that increases the likelihood it is going to crit.

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I always figured that crit for melee worked like it does for spells, ie some chance on each weapon swing. Perhaps you could show us a source for your argument?

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Q u o t e:


If you're going to want to make haste a desireable stat, maybe make it affect how fast we regain our runes. Every other melee uses haste to increase their damage output but DK only have it as a meh stats. Heck even being in unholy presence sucks sometimes because it has a really awkward rotation in PVE. It would increase DK dps if you make haste increase runes activity. But not really sure if you really want to increase DK dps atm .........

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Sounds good in theory, but the only class it could be compared to then is Warriors with rage regeneration. To make it desirable to all Melee, as GC implies is the goal, it would need to do something to effect the instant attacks of all classes, since a majority of melee attacks are instant and make up a majority of our damage as well.

I mean, increasing rune regen time would be the equivalent of asking for haste to lower the cooldown of crusader strike and judgement for me, which seems like haste would be really overpowered in that way.

You are not alone... hunters skills are mostly instant too, and haste isn't as useful as it should be.

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Q u o t e:


Your Crit chance, as well as procs, is total attacks.

This means the number of Strikes a Death knight pulls off is apart of this number of strikes.

If I want my strikes and procs to crit, not my auto-attack, I want a slow two-hand weapon.

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No, your crit chance is not a proc per minute type of philosophy. It's a plain dice roll every attack you land.

Stop thinking about crit like it's Seal of Command type of PPM ability.

Elemental Shaman share the same issues with Haste.

Our entire DPS rotation revolves around an 8 second Lava Burst Cooldown, and at certain levels of haste we have overlapping spells that can COST us DPS were we to cast instead of sitting there waiting for Lava Burst.

Haste itself needs to be funamentally changed to affect the cooldowns of abilities so it scales perfectly with any build.

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Q u o t e:


*shakes his head*

You don't understand how crits work.

It goes by how many attacks you're going to do per minute. Less blows per minute means more crits if you have enough crit chance, as you are doing less blows per minute. When you have something that procs, that increases the likelihood it is going to crit.

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I suggest you read this:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table

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Q u o t e:
We are looking at the benefits of haste (or lack thereof) for all melee right now. If anything there aren't enough stats available to make items distinct, so rather than swap out a less desirable stat with a more desirable one, we'd rather make the less desirable one desirable.

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Thank you for considering to look at this problem GC, I appreciate it. If Haste was made more desirable then my frustration would be eliminated.

There is no proc per minute aspect of crit.

If you have a 50% chance to crit, half of your attacks will crit, that's what it means.

If you attack twice per second, you'll get one crit per second on average.

If you attack once per second, you'll get one crit every two seconds on average

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Q u o t e:
We are looking at the benefits of haste (or lack thereof) for all melee right now. If anything there aren't enough stats available to make items distinct, so rather than swap out a less desirable stat with a more desirable one, we'd rather make the less desirable one desirable.

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i see what ur saying..

how about make haste affect our rune cooldowns..

or haste could also affect global cooldowns to a larger degree

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Q u o t e:
We are looking at the benefits of haste (or lack thereof) for all melee right now. If anything there aren't enough stats available to make items distinct, so rather than swap out a less desirable stat with a more desirable one, we'd rather make the less desirable one desirable.

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So you are fixing spirit for mages then? I would hope so since this stat has zero use for us right now.

It is a less desirable stat so please make it a desirable one. Or just not put it on our gear and give us some hit.

problems with some of the suggestions

Haste effecting GCD:

could potentially push our GCD down into nothing, especially as blood ( since many bloods use unholy presence for DPS )

same potential problem with runes being reduced


I'm all for buffing haste, I'd love it..

but keep in mind that the blues don't want your tier 7 to be that spectacular, and that haste is a big benefit for the dual wielding death knights, which are getting buffed pretty hard next patch from what I understand.

He's saying haste doesn't effect Frost/Scourge/Heart Strike. He'd rather have crit so his abilities that matter do more damage.

Haste does not effect instant attacks.

Jesus.

Please don't buff melee dps. I'd like to pvp sometime