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Q u o t e:


You don't need Resto shamans to raid.

If Chain Heal ends up being the only spell that gets used to heal, or the spell that pushes Holy priests and Resto druids out of a raid, then we'll nerf it. We don't think those cases are likely, but we always try to leave the possibility open.

I've already said we'll adjust the content with the assumption that CoH and WG aren't going to be as huge a percent of total healing.

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I generally read the forums but try my best not to post, but when it comes to resto shamans, I couldn't resist.

That has got to be the most faulty logic ever. And GC, if you're reading this, re-read the next part at least a dozen times just to make it stick:

1) If we're using Chain Heal exclusively in a raid, that's not the class or the spell that needs a change. It's the encounters. If you toss half a dozen bosses in Naxx where there's ridiculous amounts of AoE damage on every raid member, we will sure as hell use Chain Heal to ensure the raid's survival. While on the other hand, you put us in a position where there's limited AoE and everyone's spread apart, we will LHW/Riptide spam people. Don't hate the spell because of it. Retune your bossfights if you want Chain Heal to be used less.

2) Chain Heal will never push a Priest or a Druid off a raid, even in your wildest dreams. That is of course unless your raid leader doesn't know what he's doing. I know you already said it's not likely anyways, but I'm saying it's impossible. Reason is simple. Even on a cooldown, their AoE spell isn't limited by a jump range like ours. Chain Heal will never be, and never has beeen a "spam on tank and heal melee with it" spell because it is impossible to make it jump across the boss and hit melee. Not to mention that CoH and WG heal 5 people for equal amounts, as opposed to CH healing three for progressively reduced healing as it jumps.

3) If you're nerfing boss fights to be easier because CoH and WG are now on a CD, why nerf CoH and WG in the first place?! Obviously this means that the current bossfights pretty much require a spammable solid AoE healing spell that doesn't have the limitations of Chain Heal (as posted in #2). As a shaman, I'm perfectly content with Priests and Druids spamming aoe heals in a raid. Smart healers talk with eachother and split roles that best fit their class to ensure longevity and better survival of the raid. Those spells cannot push a good resto shaman off the raid either. Riptide/2xLHW combos are incredibly powerful and if you gear it right, it provides massive healing VERY fast for little cost. Not to mention Chain Heal is invaluable in just about every fight there is.

So the point is, I don't get the gripe with us healers. Just leave us be. We're perfectly fine the way we are. Fix your boss fights if you want us to heal differently.

The end is coming.

I am eagerly awaiting the hero healing class so I can reroll!



Ha, just joking. I see where you're coming from, and nerfs stink, but meh.

I remember in beta, the shaman community was so excited about being made more well rounded healers. We were all chattering about changes in our talent trees that would put us on par with other healers MT healing. Now I don't know if you all remember this but one day GC post that Dev's think shaman are fine and that we should use chain heal 90% of the time. This pretty much was the end of resto shaman development in wrath beta. So I'm kinda wondering that now they see shaman are not using chain heal 90% of the time and that we moved to being more LHW, Riptide healers(which of course they are nerfing), are we supposed to be chain healers only again? If so are we going to be nerfed because that is all you give us to work with?

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Q u o t e:
So I'm kinda wondering that now they see shaman are not using chain heal 90% of the time and that we moved to being more LHW, Riptide healers(which of course they are nerfing), are we supposed to be chain healers only again? If so are we going to be nerfed because that is all you give us to work with?

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I really don't think this is such a huge issue, not every fight lends itself to chain heal 90% of the time even if that's what you wanted to do. There are some fights where that's what will be required but they aren't the only fights in the game.

The reason Chain Heal was used 90% of the time in TBC was because it was cheap and scaled incredibly well, even while downranked. Downranking is no longer possible now so spamming chain heal even on single targets is going to be a thing of the past, especially as it doesn't trigger IWS whereas LHW does.

TLDR: You arent going to be spamming chain heal 90% of the time because if you do you'll go OOM.

I would ask this of shaman out there.

1. How often do you use chain heal?
2. How much overheal do you have?
3. How much effective healing do you have using chain heal?
4. Do you think your class is still fun?

I don't use chain heal that often. Last raid I cast it 41 times for the entire night. Out of the 41 times I cast it, 71% of it was overheal. LHW, Riptide and earthshield on the tank is the only way to put out effective healing at this point. I don't know why the dev's don't see Chain heal needs a re-work. I can show you WWS stats of myself and the other resto shaman in my guild. We are below 30% usuage for chain heal and some nights like I did the other on Sarth 3 drakes I used it 41 times through our attempts and kill. Instead of making an adjustment to chain heal and bringing it in line with CoH and WG you nerf 2 spells instead of fixing one. I will never understand the logic in that.

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Q u o t e:
players have gotten a lot better at WoW since then

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I see no evidence of this.

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Q u o t e:



I see no evidence of this.

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Yep, the games just gotten significantly easier. Going from 40 man raids to 25 man raids, made things easier, by virtue that there were less people to mess up. Now they've made group makeup and raid buffs something that require no thought at all, and everyone does their max damage by pressing one or two buttons. More and more smart healing, and mana regen being a non issue leads people to be able to heal in whatever method with whatever gear they want. Oh and tanking now is a joke, threats mostly a non-issue now save a few bosses for certain classes.

People have gotten better, thanks to all the resources out there like ElitistJerks and stuff too, but I think the game being easier is much more a factor here then the players being better at it.

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I see this logic often, but it doesn't make sense to me. It reads to me like this "If we have an ability that is overpowered in certain situations, don't put us in those situations." That doesn't make the ability not overpowered. It just means we have to tiptoe around it's OP-ness.

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I see this logic often, but it doesn't make sense to me. It reads to me "We have no clue what we are doing"]

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Wrath of the Lich King has dozens of instance bosses. It's challenging making those all feel different, and denying the encounter designers the ability to cause area damage takes a big tool away from them. In an old-fashioned raid like Molten Core, we could get away with doing damage mostly to the tank. But players have gotten a lot better at WoW since then, and many of them have seen a lot of encounters since then. I don't think Naxx or Ulduar would be very exciting if every boss, or even almost every boss, played like Patchwerk or Golemagg.

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Playing that card already when you reused Naxx for the 25 man and 10 man raid instance seems funny to me.

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Yep, the games just gotten significantly easier. Going from 40 man raids to 25 man raids, made things easier, by virtue that there were less people to mess up. Now they've made group makeup and raid buffs something that require no thought at all, and everyone does their max damage by pressing one or two buttons. More and more smart healing, and mana regen being a non issue leads people to be able to heal in whatever method with whatever gear they want. Oh and tanking now is a joke, threats mostly a non-issue now save a few bosses for certain classes.

People have gotten better, thanks to all the resources out there like ElitistJerks and stuff too, but I think the game being easier is much more a factor here then the players being better at it.

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Actually my comment was more aimed in the direction of the fact that people still die to the same retarded BS every raid. DPS still can't move out of the fire 3-4 years on and continue to get rewarded for making their healers lives a misery. No matter how many times you repeat 'You can't DPS when you are dead' they seem to manage it.
One of our mages constantly pulls aggro on trash because the guy simply can't wait 2 sec to put up living bomb. He is the only one who dies like that on pulls and yet apparently our tanks are the ones to blame.
I'm not astounded by this concept, I'm simply pointing out that the people playing this game might /point & /laugh at a fight like Golemagg but I ran into plenty of 70s who couldn't do Geddon MkII aka Solarian and I'm noticing a hell of a lot of 80s who can't handle simple instructions like DPS from behind on Grobbulus or my biggest pet peeve - CHARGETARDS. (OMG HOW FUCKING HARD IS IT TO MOVE 10 YARDS WHEN YOUR DEBUFF CHANGES?) Somehow I get the idea that they think its not their problem, even though they are the ones called to clean up their mess.

In before QQ

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Q u o t e:

I see this logic often, but it doesn't make sense to me. It reads to me like this "If we have an ability that is overpowered in certain situations, don't put us in those situations." That doesn't make the ability not overpowered. It just means we have to tiptoe around it's OP-ness.

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I didn't touch CoH until my very small guild of RL friends attempted Hex Lord. I went YEARS without taking a gander at it. It was almost always there(lol I did spec Holy Nova 41pts once on accident:) but I never touched it till it was almost required(at our gear level) to pass that boss. And except for BGs it sat collecting dust.

Was it breaking PvP? If no, then you seriously need to take a hard look at your encounter design teams. Sometimes Tenure protects the producer not the product.


SUMITUP: What doesn't make sense to you IS how it really is.

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Q u o t e:


Get the clue?

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To much common sense. Overload!

Error, Drive A:\ not responding, Formatting C:\

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Q u o t e:
Did you really just spit out a perfectly viable change for CoH and WG to avoid the retarded 6 sec CD and not even realize it GC?

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Forget it. It's obvious why we're getting the cooldown treatment. It's quick, it's easy and it's guaranteed to weaken the spells. Playing around with mechanic changes, or cast times would require a lot more work and testing, and an error or oversight could fail to weaken the spells or even cause them to be more powerful and useful.

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Q u o t e:
Get the clue?

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Two Words: Malygos Vortex.

Have a nice day.

But in all honesty, if blizz ever decides to revert the 6 sec CD, my suggestion is this: add the same CD reduction for CoH that PoM gets for talenting into Divine Providence. We can all get together on a 3 sec CD, right?