World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PTR

Snowfox

< Hugs For Pugs >

Vek'nilash

61. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 07:24:26 AM PST

10-mans are like that project you and one other person have to work on for school.

25-mans are like that project with five people but even slackers get averaged with everyone else.

25-mans are overall harder, just not individually harder.

Miste

< Rochambeau World Cha… >

Ysera

62. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 07:32:29 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Anyone else remember the giant cockblock that was 4H in old Naxx?

4H wasn't a cockblock. It was never nerfed by Blizz. 4H was a wonderful fight balanced just enough that you couldn't have half the raid sleep walking through it. It actually forced 40 people to pay attention and get the job done.

If you want to complain about poor design due to insufficient testing, target C'Thun.

And I agree with the OP. Less Ulduar on the PTR is a good thing. Let everyone learn most of it together on live. Naxx-40 was a fascinating thing to watch because nobody knew how to beat those encounters. The race to M'uru and Kil'Jaeden was nice too, but not nearly as interesting since the first 4 bosses were completely figured out on the PTR.

AWESOME. SMALL. TWEAKS. - Ghostcrawler

Death Knight - WotLK's new Huntard

Andastra

< Grandeur >

Kilrogg

63. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 08:47:52 AM PST

I agree with the OP. BWL wasn't tested in the PTR and it was awesome. The door to Vael was closed for a month in live because Blizzard couldn't figure out how to open it. Then Blizz had to figure out how to open the door after Vael the next month. Just about everything that wasn't tested in the PTR had either a spawning bug or a despawning bug.

Also, is Blizzard's goal that by the end of this expansion, the top guilds in the world would have 100-150 different colors of the same mount?

Muradin Refugee

Valgresas

< AfterLife >

Korgath

64. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 09:56:53 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Anyone else get a kick out of Xav using his 'professional voice' to address the Blue?

Well when you suggest something impossible you have to try to sound smart to save some dignity.

Bonafide Prophet

Lovecakes

Thrall

65. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 10:47:21 AM PST

Q u o t e:

If you haven't done the end of Sunwell pre-nerf, you have no idea what difficult or challenging content is.

Every raider would welcome difficult content with open arms... It's just, Blizzard doesn't have to pay to test their content extensively because they know most of the raiding community will do it for them. Also, the top guilds are definitely better at the game than Blizzard's team... If you don't believe me, then check DPS reports of the top guilds and then note how Blizzard repeatedly states rogues appear to do top damage when the reality, from the best guilds, states otherwise.

Most devs don't play the game, and even less raid hardcore.

The measily cost of flying hundreds of people in to test content in private and sign NDAs and whatnot is not the reason Blizzard is putting this on the PTR.

What is? Anyone's guess.

Edit: @People that still firmly believe Vael's doors and timers, Drakes, C'thun, Vashj etc. etc. were the result of bad testing: Dude. Wake up.

[ Post edited by Lovecakes ]

Muleea

Kirin Tor

66. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 10:49:59 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Anyone else remember the giant cockblock that was 4H in old Naxx?

LOL +hit trinket From Gahz'rhanka

' Except the cast bar would say "Whirwang" :P '
~Draker of Skywall talking about the bottom half of KJ.

Evocate

< Forlorn Legacy >

Windrunner

67. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 11:07:13 AM PST

Q u o t e:

I don't think the last boss should be 3 drake difficulty Sartharion, how close to Sartharion with 3 drake difficulty are the last few bosses in Ulduar going to be? (

what? lol

/facepalm

Rennadrel

Blade's Edge

68. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 11:10:22 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Because that's worked so well in the past, right?

At least it made raiding difficult, now it's a casual thing anyone can do with ease.

Cadusa

< Pantheon >

Steamwheedle Cartel

69. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 11:14:21 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Ulduar will be on PTR in the future, but we're going to have tight controls in place on what can be tested at any given time. Ulduar will also not be up permanently like Naxxramas was in the WotLK Beta. If we have something to test, we'll make the zone and encounter available. If we don't, we'll disable the zone.

That being said, there's going to be a LOT of encounters to test in both 10 and 25 player modes. There will also be a whole lot of "hard modes" and achievements to test. We're shooting for most all of the encounters to have "hard modes" that allow raids to increase the challenge and reward level if they're up to it. We're pretty pleased with how Sartharion and his drakes worked, and we're going to expand on that idea extensively in Ulduar and future raids.

This is very exciting news. The optional hard mode system is one of the best ideas yet. Everyone can see it, and those looking for it have the option to be challenged by the same content. I wish people wouldn't QQ so much, I believe the intro tier of WotLK was nailed perfectly, from itemization to the number of instances to encounter design, and yes even tuning (even scrubs deserve a chance to raid). In contrast to the intro raid tier of BC which was a complete mess at launch. Can't wait for Ulduar.

[ Post edited by Cadusa ]

Bulky

< eZe >

Gorefiend

71. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 11:56:03 AM PST

Q u o t e:

"A lot " of bosses is misleading when you take into account that he may be combining both the 10/25 man as well as the 'hard mode' achievements into one.

Well it's kinda a given that Ulduar is going to have a lot of bosses in general since they are going back to the 1 large instance plan rather than having 2 small ones such as TK/SCCa and BT/Hyjal.

Valgresas

< AfterLife >

Korgath

72. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 11:57:35 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Well it's kinda a given that Ulduar is going to have a lot of bosses in general since they are going back to the 1 large instance plan rather than having 2 small ones such as TK/SCCa and BT/Hyjal.

9 bosses = small?

Bonafide Prophet

Bulky

< eZe >

Gorefiend

73. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 12:01:22 PM PST

Q u o t e:

9 bosses = small?

Judging by how it turned into 14 with Hyjal yes it was 2 'small' instances. Ulduar will probably have the same if not more bosses than Naxx. My point was more to it being 1 giant instance for the tier rather than 2-3 instances for the same tier.

[ Post edited by Bulky ]

Valgresas

< AfterLife >

Korgath

74. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 12:09:17 PM PST

MC had 10 BWL had 8 AQ 40 had 9 Dumbwell had 6, all solo tier, there's no reason to assume Ulduar will have 15+

Bonafide Prophet

Garrotte

< Reckless Endeavor >

Argent Dawn

75. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 12:31:11 PM PST

Just make Ulduar completely impossible to do. That way all the "hardcore" raiders that complained Wrath is too easy can spend the next 2 years wiping on an instance they won't ever actually completely (don't tell them it's impossible, though--keep the carrot on the stick).

"LOL LEKI OMG WOW IS SOO HADR AGEN ITZ EPICZ LIKE VANILAAL OMG!!!"
"WUT U MEAN ITZ IMPOSSIBEL?!!11"

Fuseflower

< Sad Panda >

Smolderthorn

76. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 12:43:03 PM PST

Q u o t e:

4H wasn't a cockblock. It was never nerfed by Blizz. 4H was a wonderful fight balanced just enough that you couldn't have half the raid sleep walking through it. It actually forced 40 people to pay attention and get the job done.

4h wasn't necessarily a cockblock...but it required 8 (1/5th of the raid) warrior tanks with 4 piece of tier 3 and for them to farm other +hit gear so their taunts dont "miss". Once you had that, it was doable...but that does not mean that it was balanced.

I'm tired of people thinking that 4h was "balanced" in any way.

I would love to see a fight in Uludar that requires 5 prot paladins and see if people like you still praise how well balanced it is...

[ Post edited by Fuseflower ]

www.sad-panda.org

Daelo

Blizzard Poster

77. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 12:57:33 PM PST

Followup time!

The reward for completing the hard modes are not going to be just achievement points, titles, or mounts, but improved, additional item rewards.

I think it's safe to say that Ulduar will be a bit more difficult overall than Naxxramas, even without the hard modes. We're still going to tune the zone for accessibility(*), but a raid group that's done Naxxramas, Malygos, and Sartharion and obtained the gear from those encounters should be well prepared for Ulduar. Not only is the raid's gear better, but players should now have some raiding experience under their belts. We also have a much more accurate picture of what guilds are capable of from a healing, damage, and tanking perspective then when WotLK first went live. If Naxxramas was the introduction to raiding 101 class for players who have never raided before, think of Ulduar as the second year class.

* There will be one optional encounter that is only tuned as a "hard mode" encounter.

I don't think you have to worry about spoilers from Achievements, to be honest. Seeing achievement text before you fight a boss is like seeing a single piece of a large jigsaw puzzle. Sure, it's something, but it's nothing really without seeing the context of the encounter as a whole. I also expect achievements to be something tested late in the PTR process. Implementing them is one of the last parts of the development pipeline.

[ Post edited by Daelo ]

Daelo
Lead Encounter Designer

Sendaii

< Alpha >

Greymane

78. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 01:05:16 PM PST

Thats nice to hear. Thanks Daelo.

-Brunnor/Sendaii
-Telepathy(Horde)
http://www.crimson-guild.com

Cassiira

< Infernal Affairs >

Moonrunner

79. Re: Blizz, do NOT make Ulduar available on PT 01/02/2009 01:07:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
There will also be a whole lot of "hard modes" and achievements to test. We're shooting for most all of the encounters to have "hard modes" that allow raids to increase the challenge and reward level if they're up to it.

So how long do we have to wait for an entire instance of baseline "hard-mode" fights? Part of the rush of beating a difficult encounter for the first time, is actually having your first kill be hard. I don't want to wipe the floor with boss fights, then come back the next week and work on it hard mode, only to earn a fairly anti-climatic kill, because we've already killed the boss before.

3 drakes was fun. But I don't want all my fun to be based around gimmick achievements.

Edit: Thanks for the info though :)

[ Post edited by Cassiira ]

A lot of AP - Plenty of HR - Tons of Crit - Balls Deep Armor Pen.
Paisy is my forums apprentice. Be less jealous.

Forum > Gameplay Discussion Forums > Dungeons & Raids