World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> @ GC, So Now That...

Grekkor

< Deliríum >

Magtheridon

0. @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 05:56:18 PM PST

Classes are starting to get gear is the hunter nerf going to happen? On the PTR it seems some hunters are loseing over 2000 dps on some fights. I do come in first on most fights but that is because I have the gear and I know how to play my class in PVE very well. I do have other hunters that come in far behind me and all I can do is speak for our raids when I say it looks like Death Knights and warlocks have no problem keeping up and/or passing me on some fights.

I think the reason why hunters broke out alot of dps when we first started to raid was because no one had gear and a hunter + pet was doing more than others. Now that alot of people have gear it seems the numbers are evening out quite a bit. So is the nerf really needed and if so how bad is it going to be?

It bothers me that after years of testing and months on a beta no one thought about us being able to spec into readiness. I assume that readiness was moved up so that we can use it in BM as well as the other 2 specs since it is a major talent. As far as steady shot goes wont that hurt all 3 specs? MM and SUV much more than BM? Also for years hunters havent had a great AOE ability, hitting with the original volly was a joke, now its great maybe a bit op on trash but I dont think anyone cares who is topping the trash meter and I have never seen a volly used on a boss. (What I ment was I dont think anyone at blizzard is willing to nerf a class over trash damage)

If the nerf is comming I would like to know what are your future plans with my fav class??

[ Post edited by Grekkor ]

Gloyn

Frostmane

1. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 05:58:19 PM PST

I haven't seen any hunters on the PTR losing 2000 DPS, let alone 2000k ( 2 million ) DPS, even on patch,

and people complain about patchwerk being a bad benchmark anyways, which is the encounter where a hunter will lose the most SS damage.

[ Post edited by Gloyn ]

Manito

< Ninjas Drink WAHTAH >

Kilrogg

4. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:27:31 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Also GC just wanted to know if they plan on adding +hit to more mail gear since our entire T7 set only has 40. 290 is really hard to hit without using focus aim.

Where'd you get 290 from?

264 is physical hit cap for hunters.

Manitos Modified Shot Macros
http://www.bigredkitty.net/forums/index.php?topic=1003.0
Manitos 3.0.8 Hunter Nerf Alternatives
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13593869408&sid=1

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

5. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:27:52 PM PST

Q u o t e:
It bothers me that after years of testing and months on a beta no one thought about us being able to spec into readiness. I assume that readiness was moved up so that we can use it in BM as well as the other 2 specs since it is a major talent.

We did consider it, and thought it was an interesting talent build choice, but it ended up dominating. We made some changes pretty late in the cycle that ended up inflating hunter damage, especially the chunk coming from pets. We also went back and forth a little on which raid-wide buffs would affect ranged attacks. Hunter dps just ended up being higher than we thought.

Q u o t e:
As far as steady shot goes wont that hurt all 3 specs? MM and SUV much more than BM?

It affects all 3 specs, but we changed Arcane and Explosive to offset that some, as well as fixing a glyph that was hurting Marks. Steady was just a huge portion of hunter damage, and not a particularly interesting ability (in that you can just sit there and mash the button without worrying about timing other abilities around it), so when we wanted to bring hunter dps down, it was an attractive target. FWIW, ammo was another one. We considered nerfing how much damage all ammo in the game contributed, but went with the SS change for the reason I stated.

Q u o t e:
Also for years hunters havent had a great AOE ability, hitting with the original volly was a joke, now its great maybe a bit op on trash but I dont think anyone cares who is topping the trash meter and I have never seen a volly used on a boss.

I agree with the first part, which is why we buffed Volley quite a bit. But in retrospect, we buffed it too much. We didn't want hunters to have the highest single-target damage and highest AE damage, as well as bringing great buffs and CC to the group. With the new Volley, I expect every PvE hunter will still be using that button on large groups, but going back to Multi on smaller ones.

I disagree with the "trash meter" comment. For one, players do care about trash. Elemental shamans and rogues for example felt like there was so much AE'ing going on that they were not attractive specs for raids. Players can say "nobody cares about trash," but we don't buy it. Raids wipe on trash. Raids are called when trash respawns. For speed clears, to satisfy a hard mode achievement or bear-mount style challenge, the rate at which you can clear trash very much matters. If it didn't I'm not sure you'd mind a Volley nerf at all.

Second, you AE on an awful lot of bosses too.

Callen

Kil'jaeden

6. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:28:19 PM PST

Anyways, from what I've been reading, the buffs to survival make hunters scale well and maintain competitive dps due to less reliance on horribly scaling pets.

Is this widely accepted or just the ramblings of one random poster?

[ Post edited by Callen ]

Q u o t e:
Rogues should be doing very high dps if not the highest dps for some fights. If that isn't happening we will buff them.

-Ghostcrawler

Deal with it.

Gloyn

Frostmane

8. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:38:22 PM PST

Q u o t e:
TY GC for reading and answering my post and happy new year.

So they want rogues doing the most dps in raid?

On rogue friendly fights yes, because they play at a disadvantage on many fights involving movement or AE, save thaddius really.

"most DPS" is really based on player skill/gear and the actual encounter before everything else, or at least, that's the goal.

Phoe

< Destiny >

Auchindoun

10. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:47:05 PM PST

Q u o t e:
TY GC for reading and answering my post and happy new year.

So they want rogues doing the most dps in raid?

How does it not make sense? You bring great single target dps, and great aoe dps. You bring more utility. Ret paladins bring great aoe, and great single target, and great utility and buffs. Warriors bring great aoe dps and great single target dps, etc..

Rogues bring great single target dps <---Period!

It's common sense, which is also why rogues need severe PvE love, trash does matter to an extent, and even on boss fights rogues are outscaled by just about every other class single target wise.

THIS IS OF COURSE IGNORING THE HAT BUG THAT WILL BE FIXED EVENTUALLY, atleast i hope, cuz if this is what blizzard wants of rogues, you may as well not play one. Hat is not fun and really idiotic to stack a raid for such a glitch.

short version, buff rogue pve dps and fix hat spec.

Phoe

< Destiny >

Auchindoun

11. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:49:58 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Tell me about it there are so many fights that you have to move in i.e. Grobbulus - pet takes alot of damage from the fart bombs, Thaddius - pet cant make the jump to the boss platform so I have to spam click follow and attack to get him to jump down, Heigan the Unclean - my pet cant dance for crap, Sapphiron - pet dies 2 - 3 times (for some reason hunter pets only attack one spot rather than from where the hunters is...the pets run for that tail like its a chew toy), Sartharion - flame waves kill pets unless you have dash.

If you think it's harder to dps as a hunter then a mutilate rogue keeping HFB, snd, rupture while managing points for evisc and moving and target switching dpending on boss, you're really oblivious to melee dps in general.

Deal with it, hunters should not be highest single target dps, it makes absolutely no sense given the fact you bring range, aoe viability, and better utility to a raid, over a rogue. How do you NOT understand that.

Oh and for the boss fights, there is a good thread outlining why most current bosses favor ranged vs melee, and this has been the case forever on most raid encounters.

Deimøs

< Skillville >

The Underbog

12. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:51:26 PM PST

what boss do you use ae on

and i mean the boss himself not the boring and useless p1 or some trash where we cant even attack the boss

Killshotlol

Dragonmaw

13. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:52:58 PM PST

Yep, at first I thought hunter's destroyed the damage meters as well, but I realized I was just out gearing everyone. I just don't think people know how to play their classes. Frostfire Mages and Boomkins for example on equal gear level usually beat me as Marksman, and if you are nerfing Steady Shot, it seems Marksman is most likely going to be fail for PvE again.

Q u o t e:
Deal with it, hunters should not be highest single target dps, it makes absolutely no sense given the fact you bring range, aoe viability, and better utility to a raid, over a rogue. How do you NOT understand that.

Honestly, I hate Volley, sure it's awesome aoe damage, but it eats through bow durability like mad, which is expensive, and inconvenient.

As to this, the problem there is that the game isn't just balanced around PvE. How can they nerf our single target w/o gimping us even harder when every class sits on our face in PvP? They had our single target high to attempt to give us some burst in PvP and it turned out to be too high sustained in PvE.

Hunters aren't very hard to PvE good as, and honestly Rogues aren't either.

As far as 'target switching while managing combo points'. I don't know about you but in most every raid I have been in, it's been "Ranged on adds". And if I were a Rogue, man it would be hard to wait till I am full energy and burned my combo points to switch targets.

Q u o t e:
and not a particularly interesting ability (in that you can just sit there and mash the button without worrying about timing other abilities around it)

For BM I agree, but marks (and I would assume Survival too, but I have never really looked in to it) we do have to time abilities around it because of haste procs. Once our Steady drops close to the GCD, it becomes nearly worthless to weave in Arcane/Aimed/Multi because all it does is eat a GCD and make us miss a steady.

[ Post edited by Killshotlol ]

Borogove

Alleria

15. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 06:55:19 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I disagree with the "trash meter" comment. For one, players do care about trash. Elemental shamans and rogues for example felt like there was so much AE'ing going on that they were not attractive specs for raids. Players can say "nobody cares about trash," but we don't buy it.

This is reassuring.

Sometimes I worry that the developers might be naive about the enormous extent to which players on the forums are constantly lying to them and to each other in order to gain or keep advantages for their favourite class. But this shows that you're well aware of it.

Borogove

Alleria

18. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 07:05:13 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Kinda like an arcane mage qqing about how much they need buffs huh? :)

Hmm?

Steviewonder

< Grind >

Wildhammer

19. Re: @ GC, So Now That... 12/31/2008 07:12:19 PM PST

I always assumed that our dps mechanic was to balance the fact that hunters have to watch our pets closely. I mean during fights i'm constantly micro managing my pet, it's position, it's health, making sure his spells are auto casting (pls fix rabids and cowers autocast, it bugs out all the time).

50/21 with a scorpid or a cat is what makes hunter OP in PVE dps. I'm spec'd into exotic pets and i hardly ever blow everyone out of the water on dps. Ret paladins, arm warriors, warlocks, frostfire mages all seem up to keep up fine. So i think these nerf are a bit overdone. How about you look at hunter numbers that are not spec'd readiness before you totally destroy Steady shot.

[ Post edited by Steviewonder ]

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