As a Trap Dancing Survival Hunter, it's been bugging me for a while that bosses with abnormally large hit boxes still won't set off a trap unless it's placed directly beneath them. On some bosses, Malygos in particular (although any large boss will affect traps the same), trapping all in itself becomes incredibly difficult.

If the boss hit boxes have been extended for melee to fight at a "safe" range, why is it that hunters still have to run in beneath the boss to set a simple trap? This isn't even to mention that the hit box on Malygos is so enormous that range can end up getting squished back against the wall for the sheer size of the boss.

I'd like to know if there was any intention of increasing trap activation range in the future, or simply giving traps the ability to go off based on the proximity of the boss's hit box (rather than the proximity of his/her NPC model).

**Edit** While APT (Arrow-Propelled Traps) would make things a little easier, the problem would still not be solved. Even with the ability for us now to fire a freezing trap off into the distance, we'll have the same issue of "missing" a boss's center point for being a micron off in our shot (I realize freezing traps don't affect bosses to begin with, it's just an example!).

It's kind of obnoxious to plant a trap under a huge boss, and just have it sit there because you missed the perfect dot that serves as the humongous dragon/spider's center. It would be a lot more convenient if the traps just went off inside of the boss's hit box, instead.

I believe this is a legacy of the trap nerf that reduced activation range in early BC. Traps used to go off basically whenever a hitbox overlapped them, then were nerfed and I believe they now only trigger when the center of the mob/player's hitbox passes over the trap's effective hit box.

I joined after BC was already in swing, so I wasn't aware of the nerf. Looking at it now, and just how large some bosses are getting (and how dangerous it can be to run through their NPC model to plant a trap that might miss) I'm kind of annoyed. Was the hit box activation causing a lot of problems?

If they are making survival a viable spec now through trap-dancing, I hope they consider redefining trap activation ranges. or replacing some/all the trap spells with arrow spells perhaps

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Q u o t e:
I joined after BC was already in swing, so I wasn't aware of the nerf. Looking at it now, and just how large some bosses are getting (and how dangerous it can be to run through their NPC model to plant a trap that might miss) I'm kind of annoyed. Was the hit box activation causing a lot of problems?

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The rogue QQ was causing a lot of problems. This is from the era when hunters were a hard counter for rogues instead of a free kill. All our counters were progressively nerfed while rogues were progressively buffed.

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Q u o t e:
If they are making survival a viable spec now through trap-dancing, I hope they consider redefining trap activation ranges. or replacing some/all the trap spells with arrow spells perhaps

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While APT (Arrow-Propelled Traps) would make things a little easier, the problem would still not be solved. Even with the ability for us now to fire a freezing trap off into the distance, we'll have the same issue of "missing" a boss's center point for being a micron off in our shot (I realize freezing traps don't affect bosses to begin with, it's just an example!).

The real issue stems from traps not activating even when a boss like Malygos "steps" on them. By "stepping", I mean the NPC's foot has just touched down on top of a trap, but is so far from his center that it doesn't affect him.

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Q u o t e:
The rogue QQ was causing a lot of problems. This is from the era when hunters were a hard counter for rogues instead of a free kill. All our counters were progressively nerfed while rogues were progressively buffed.

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Rogues are still fairly easy to deal with, as they tend to run "through" us fairly often as they run through their rotations. If your trinket is available, or you just plain out see them coming, it's still fairly easy to lay down a trap of the ice variety and slow them down and make your escape.

I don't think anyone could run through a trap and not expect it to go off, and at the moment, PC hit boxes aren't large enough to warrant QQ over such a trap mechanic change; a trap would still essentially only go off if you were to stand on top of it.

Heck, our pets even give us a free trinket effect with Master's Call!

Pardon my ignorance, but why would you want to trap a boss? And what is this trap-dancing you speak of?

Genuine questions.

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Q u o t e:
Pardon my ignorance, but why would you want to trap a boss? And what is this trap-dancing you speak of?

Genuine questions.

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There's a talent called TNT that's basically a chance for a clearcasting buff on each tick of periodic damage for a trap or a sting. Trap dancing is running in and dropping a trap under the boss, then running back out to pewpew.

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Q u o t e:
There's a talent called TNT that's basically a chance for a clearcasting buff on each tick of periodic damage for a trap or a sting. Trap dancing is running in and dropping a trap under the boss, then running back out to pewpew.

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Precisely! To extend a little on that explanation, "Lock and Load" procs in two occurrences:

The target is hit by a trap. (100% Activate)
The target is hit by a serpent sting tick. (6% Activate)

After this proc, Survival Hunters are able to fire two mana-free, ammo-free Explosive Shots, contributing greatly to our DPS. This practice has been labeled "Trap Dancing" since we can force Lock and Load to proc by laying traps.

I never understood the initial change to the trap range to begin with. Yeah I heard the reasons, but it didn't seem that much of a problem. Now that BM is no longer as viable a spec after the 3.0.8 they should also adjust the trap range. If pvp was the only reason for the change then that's just ridiculous and yet another stigma on how pvp changes are mangling pve strategies. With all the anti-cc abilities these days there should be no reason why a change like this should not be implemented.

Good post, good points, here's to staying on page one.

Also forgot to say that I wonder why there hasn't been much discussion on this issue. I know that BM is the way to go (at least it was) and I would really like to see the figures on an SV Hunter (with current PTR changes to ES) does trap dancing vs not. Happen to have any yourself?

all traps need to be shootable.

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Q u o t e:
all traps need to be shootable.

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As I answered above, simply being able to shoot a trap at a boss isn't going to help much if you miss their center. The real issue with traps right now is that you have to find the boss's T-Spot to be able to activate them and proc L&L.

As for Trap Dancing, if you're doing it well, and it's something you're comfortable with, then yes, you'll do a lot more damage with it. If it's just not your sort of thing, there's definitely no shame in picking up a Sniper Training spec and dishing it out in that manner.

At the moment, Trap Dancing is already grossing very large amounts of DPS. Having tried both types of Survival build (Sniper Central and Trap Central) I noticed that the difference really only comes into effect with bosses that may be difficult to trap, and bosses that are difficult to get range on.

Still, Trap Dancing with the correct spec will definitely do more damage in a Patchwerk-style of boss. That's really where trap issues can hurt us, as every trap that "misses" the boss for not being close enough to his freakishly large center is a trap that isn't contributing to our rotation.

Honestly, I find trap dancing to be a horrid backwards way of playing a hunter and I'm really hoping that the heydey of it is short lived. I've been experimenting with it anyhow because with the buff to explosive shot it's going to pretty much have to be the best way to do max dps as a survival hunter, but it feels totally wrong for hunters to be hugging melee range and running in and out during the fight (not to mention the concept of resourcefulness and savage strikes as hunter dps talents gives me headaches).

That being said, I agree that the trap activation range is really stupid and should be larger. The amount of times I have tossed a trap under the feet of a huge boss and it's just sat there and not gone off is just wrong.

Agree hit boxes need to trigger traps, disagree that Trap Dancing is fun or anything. I've been trying it out, and yeah, it's clumsy, hard to model, pretty ridiculous to expect Hunter's to stand in melee range, and makes Sniper Training worthless.

I think Trap Dancing would be far less clumsy if they'd just go off inside of the boss's hit box instead of the juggling factor that comes into play as you search for the gigantic boss's T-Spot. Other than playing hide and seek with the boss's center, I actually have a lot of fun with Trap Dancing.

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Q u o t e:
all traps need to be shootable.

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*suggestion*
Make ranged traps a .5 sec cast time, allow them to be a skill in which it will hit the enemy when they are *targeted* and otherwise be a placement spell like blizzard and whatnot when you are devoid of a target.

Fixes the hit box problem as far as ranged traps goes (in PvE settings), and allows normal set traps to not go off if you get within 10 yards of it.