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Q u o t e:


His pet did 1900 DPS. Easy fix, Remove the Gargoyle and all of a sudden his DPS falls in line. GJ on the numbers though. As always anything people don't understand will be destroyed, Blizz will "Balance" your class and it is cause of all the haters.

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Did you read where he said "ghoul dps wasn't parsed"? Did you factor THAT in? No? WTF?

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Q u o t e:


If it were unintended it'd have been nerfed by now.

You said it yourself. The entire build relies on diseases and procs. Holy crap, a downside!

There's nothing wrong with dual-wielding. If DK damage is too high, it's overall, not because of what weapons work. Get over it and accept that dual-wielding is a viable spec choice.

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The problem isnt that DW is a viable spec choice, its that at high gear levels it outpaces 2hers by ALOT.

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Q u o t e:


The problem isnt that DW is a viable spec choice, its that at high gear levels it outpaces 2hers by ALOT.

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That is a problem, and it will get fixed. Doesn't mean it was unintended for dual-wielding to work well.

someone should link that 50/0/21 doing 7K....i have not seen that anywhere

BTW, make gargoyle the 51 point talent imo and dont nerf it. Put UB as the 21 and call it a day imo

what is the actuall spec you are using??? i just wanna try it out and to do that i want the actuall spec used.

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Q u o t e:
The goal is to let death knights make a choice between DW or 2H dps. We realize there is a risk that DW will overtake 2H at some point, but that is not the goal. For most existing classes that promote DW, we allow DW to dominate.

It's hard to tell if that is happening yet on DKs. Patchwerk is a short fight where blowing cooldowns reaps big benefits, and I tend to agree with the opinions that this guy won the lottery.

We haven't decided if we are going to take steps yet to back off DW damage. I think the jury is still out on whether we are going to see a lot or most DKs go the DW route. If DW DKs are only going for the fastest possible weapons in order to maximize procs per unit time, then that is something we might address.

I definitely wouldn't vendor your Colossal Skull-Clad Cleavers just yet. :)

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Please make the right decision and base your ideas not on one boss and not on a FoTM spec. The more I play this spec, the more I realize it's extremely dependent on the fight, and in any fight where I can't just stand still and make the best use of my pets and cooldowns, I don't do nearly as well as other classes.

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Q u o t e:
The goal is to let death knights make a choice between DW or 2H dps. We realize there is a risk that DW will overtake 2H at some point, but that is not the goal. For most existing classes that promote DW, we allow DW to dominate.

It's hard to tell if that is happening yet on DKs. Patchwerk is a short fight where blowing cooldowns reaps big benefits, and I tend to agree with the opinions that this guy won the lottery.

We haven't decided if we are going to take steps yet to back off DW damage. I think the jury is still out on whether we are going to see a lot or most DKs go the DW route. If DW DKs are only going for the fastest possible weapons in order to maximize procs per unit time, then that is something we might address.

I definitely wouldn't vendor your Colossal Skull-Clad Cleavers just yet. :)

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WTH? Where are the massive nerfs for this class b/c OBVIOUSLY it's doing to much dmg as a hybrid class? Why are Hunters being massively nerfed as a PURE DPS Class when other classes are doing equal to more dmg?

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Q u o t e:

Look at the top arena 2s comps.
Alot of DK/Holy pallies.
It's clear that DKs are bit TOO heroic.
A class dominating pve AND pvp never stays that way for long.
Don't worry. I'm thinking the DK nerf is immanent.

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fixed it for you

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Q u o t e:
The goal is to let death knights make a choice between DW or 2H dps. We realize there is a risk that DW will overtake 2H at some point, but that is not the goal. For most existing classes that promote DW, we allow DW to dominate.

It's hard to tell if that is happening yet on DKs. Patchwerk is a short fight where blowing cooldowns reaps big benefits, and I tend to agree with the opinions that this guy won the lottery.

We haven't decided if we are going to take steps yet to back off DW damage. I think the jury is still out on whether we are going to see a lot or most DKs go the DW route. If DW DKs are only going for the fastest possible weapons in order to maximize procs per unit time, then that is something we might address.

I definitely wouldn't vendor your Colossal Skull-Clad Cleavers just yet. :)

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What I'm seeing is that DW DKs are in line with 2h Unholy DKs and the top DPS specs of other classes (specifically, I tie very often with Frostfire Mages, BM Hunters, etc). 2h Blood and 2h Frost could use a few buffs to bring them up to the other specs' level.

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Q u o t e:
The goal is to let death knights make a choice between DW or 2H dps. We realize there is a risk that DW will overtake 2H at some point, but that is not the goal. For most existing classes that promote DW, we allow DW to dominate.

It's hard to tell if that is happening yet on DKs. Patchwerk is a short fight where blowing cooldowns reaps big benefits, and I tend to agree with the opinions that this guy won the lottery.

We haven't decided if we are going to take steps yet to back off DW damage. I think the jury is still out on whether we are going to see a lot or most DKs go the DW route. If DW DKs are only going for the fastest possible weapons in order to maximize procs per unit time, then that is something we might address.

I definitely wouldn't vendor your Colossal Skull-Clad Cleavers just yet. :)

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Even on a test dummy with less than idea weapons I still pulled more damage than my 2hander. It could be me...I don't know but it does feel that DW is the only option. Yes, you can blow your cooldowns but honest that's the point of it right?

I wish we had a better idea of what you were planning to do to make sure the 2hander crowd isn't left in the dust.

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Q u o t e:
The goal is to let death knights make a choice between DW or 2H dps. We realize there is a risk that DW will overtake 2H at some point, but that is not the goal. For most existing classes that promote DW, we allow DW to dominate.

It's hard to tell if that is happening yet on DKs. Patchwerk is a short fight where blowing cooldowns reaps big benefits, and I tend to agree with the opinions that this guy won the lottery.

We haven't decided if we are going to take steps yet to back off DW damage. I think the jury is still out on whether we are going to see a lot or most DKs go the DW route. If DW DKs are only going for the fastest possible weapons in order to maximize procs per unit time, then that is something we might address.

I definitely wouldn't vendor your Colossal Skull-Clad Cleavers just yet. :)

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It is alreadly happening GC. Had a guild mate of mine switch from a 2 handed UH spec where he was about even with a blood 2 handed specced DK in the guild to the 32/39 spec. He went from a titansteel destroyer to a grasscutter and a BS'd 1 hander and his DPS jumped anywhere from 500-1000dps depending on the fight in 25 man Naxx. I am UH 2 handed specced and am in the top 8 in dps on the 25 man Naxx and my DPS does not come close to his current DPS. It DOES come close to his old pre-DW spec dps.

One problem is the simple fact that the 2 handers are scaling terribly, the DPS numbers on the 2 handers need to be substantially higher when compared to the equal level 1 handers. Sure the DMG numbers are higher, but the strike damage we get from that is not coming close to making 2 handed equal atm. We need 2 handers to flat out have higher DMG numbers or be alot faster, anything to change the DPS situation where a single 1 hander has 77% the DPS of a 2 hander.

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Q u o t e:


Please make the right decision and base your ideas not on one boss and not on a FoTM spec. The more I play this spec, the more I realize it's extremely dependent on the fight, and in any fight where I can't just stand still and make the best use of my pets and cooldowns, I don't do nearly as well as other classes.

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Well, that argument didn't work for hunters, but maybe DK's will get more mileage out of it. :)

Good luck.

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Q u o t e:


What I'm seeing is that DW DKs are in line with 2h Unholy DKs and the top DPS specs of other classes (specifically, I tie very often with Frostfire Mages, BM Hunters, etc). 2h Blood and 2h Frost could use a few buffs to bring them up to the other specs' level.

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I'd avoid buffing 2h frost or blood too much, simply because they both massively outscale unholy ( except unholy has a better RP dump than blood ) and frost and blood both benefit a lot more from haste ( blood's high melee damage and frost's killing machine ) and ArPen ( scourge strike takes no benefit from arpen )


however for DW I think the two biggest changes that would fix 0/32/39 and DESTROY 0/20/51 ( which is a bad spec from a mechanics point ) would be reblanacing the damage between IT and PS... my IT crits for 3.4k.. my PS crits for 1.5k .... and moving gargoyle to 41 points.

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Q u o t e:


I'd avoid buffing 2h frost or blood too much, simply because they both massively outscale unholy ( except unholy has a better RP dump than blood ) and frost and blood both benefit a lot more from haste ( blood's high melee damage and frost's killing machine ) and ArPen ( scourge strike takes no benefit from arpen )


however for DW I think the two biggest changes that would fix 0/32/39 and DESTROY 0/20/51 ( which is a bad spec from a mechanics point ) would be reblanacing the damage between IT and PS... my IT crits for 3.4k.. my PS crits for 1.5k .... and moving gargoyle to 41 points.

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switching gargoyle and unholy blight is an incredible suggestion.

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Q u o t e:
The goal is to let death knights make a choice between DW or 2H dps. We realize there is a risk that DW will overtake 2H at some point, but that is not the goal. For most existing classes that promote DW, we allow DW to dominate.

It's hard to tell if that is happening yet on DKs. Patchwerk is a short fight where blowing cooldowns reaps big benefits, and I tend to agree with the opinions that this guy won the lottery.

We haven't decided if we are going to take steps yet to back off DW damage. I think the jury is still out on whether we are going to see a lot or most DKs go the DW route. If DW DKs are only going for the fastest possible weapons in order to maximize procs per unit time, then that is something we might address.

I definitely wouldn't vendor your Colossal Skull-Clad Cleavers just yet. :)

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It is rather upsetting that another "Hybrid" class like my own can put up such insane DPS numbers and the discussion is not over whether or not they are too powerful, but if they should have yet another way to reach those numbers(2 hander versus DW).

Why can't Shaman be balanced against a DK instead of a Balance Druid? Does being a "Hero" class entitle them to being a more powerful class?

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Q u o t e:


I'd avoid buffing 2h frost or blood too much, simply because they both massively outscale unholy ( except unholy has a better RP dump than blood ) and frost and blood both benefit a lot more from haste ( blood's high melee damage and frost's killing machine ) and ArPen ( scourge strike takes no benefit from arpen )


however for DW I think the two biggest changes that would fix 0/32/39 and DESTROY 0/20/51 ( which is a bad spec from a mechanics point ) would be reblanacing the damage between IT and PS... my IT crits for 3.4k.. my PS crits for 1.5k .... and moving gargoyle to 41 points.

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Rebalancing IT to be closer to PS would absolutely destroy both those specs as well as 2h frost. I don't think that would be an ideal situation. Just because some people have reached higher dps with DW doesn't mean it is being forced on anyone or that it is in all circumstances the best dps spec. A potential fix to balancing them could come in the form of Gargoyle, although how to handle that (moving it or just plain nerfing it) might be a trickier situation.

Ultimately I'd like to see both about equal as I want to have the choice of which to play. I could easily be 2h frost at the moment or two hand blood but I enjoy the way this spec plays at the current time. The fact that the dps is very strong is a perk, but I'd prefer not to be punished for enjoying a particularly playstyle.

Something I would like to see is if DW could be balanced around using a slow mainhand rather than two fast. Shifting the focus to this would mean a change to KM which could be the source of the current scaling problems as well as allowing rogues and dw dks to share weapon choices.

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Q u o t e:


It is rather upsetting that another "Hybrid" class like my own can put up such insane DPS numbers and the discussion is not over whether or not they are too powerful, but if they should have yet another way to reach those numbers(2 hander versus DW).

Why can't Shaman be balanced against a DK instead of a Balance Druid? Does being a "Hero" class entitle them to being a more powerful class?

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maybe elemental shamans are balanced around the boomkin model because they both fulfill the same raid role?

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Q u o t e:


It is rather upsetting that another "Hybrid" class like my own can put up such insane DPS numbers and the discussion is not over whether or not they are too powerful, but if they should have yet another way to reach those numbers(2 hander versus DW).

Why can't Shaman be balanced against a DK instead of a Balance Druid? Does being a "Hero" class entitle them to being a more powerful class?

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This is kind of unneeded in this thread. I could point out that on the WWS in question the second highest on damage was an enhancement shaman, but I wouldn't start screaming "OMG hybrids beating hunters, WTF why are you nerfing hunters and not shamans." Warriors are hybrids to and they pull very nice dps, a large portion of which comes from an auto applied dot, but I don't think they need a nerf either. If dps for DKs, or any class, is too high it'll be roped in, one WWS is not an indication by itself that the class on a whole is unbalanced.

A shaman is most often compared with a balance druid because they compare themselves with a balance druid and it fits the dps style of elemental closer than any other class (caster hybrid).