I don't understand why they have this new idea that different talent trees should be viable for pvp, this applies to all the classes. For instance 2 weeks ago GC said they are looking into making holy more viable in pvp.

This has severally messed things up because as we all know its hard to balance pve in relation to pvp.


Having separate talents suited the game well. Now that they are moving to make all spec lines pvp viable its created and unbalanced mess, really dumb way to go, since its nearly impossible to balance in regards to pve. Maybe they are going to invent resilience part 2.

THink about this for a minute.

DO you really want these guys revamping a whole tree right now?

I mean look at what they have done over the past few months. Everything they did from ret pallys damage buff to and including the upcoming WG nurf, was....wrong and resulted in abilities being nurfed worse then before their change was implemented.

These guys are a little trigger happy when it comes to SIMPLE changes, no way right now I want them getting into any of my trees and making any changes. I couldnt imagine the train reck.

Guys are asking for alot lately, but if DEVS wouldnt have changed anything to begin with, nothing would need changed.

Stay out of my tree please, I pay good money for it and dont want it ruined.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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Ghost, the reason people are stacking int and spirit is because of meditation. It is a necessary talent. The reason people are able to not worry about regen as much is because they have that passive 30% going on. If it wasn't there, things would be much, much worse.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

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Please be aware that while those in a 25 man raid can always count on replenishment, those of us in the 10 man scene do not have that luxury.

And on a related note please look into changing the token system. In our 10 man guild we do not have any raiding rogues, hunters and usually we have no shamans or warriors either. So we end up wasting a lot of loot and a lot tokens. It would be nice if there were only 2 token types (or even 1) for the 10 man stuff.

if anything it sounds like the plan to make meditation optional is to nerf it

just because innervate and divine plea are OP doesn't translate to nerf priest

I dont agree innervate and Divine please is OP, its a class skill, and each class should have "special" abilities.

I DO agree if you read between these lines, we are certainly going to lose mediation now. And there is probably NOTHING that can be done about it.

I hope Im wrong.

Well, CoH needs a change, give or take, it is just too good and a 25 man trigger happy button. The main problem is where that was our one and only spell to heal through a burts damage raid-wide without spending at least 1.5 secs on each target, since by that time chain heals wild growths and lifeblooms would have made we simply jump cancel.

PoM is one awesome spell that never stays out of its CD unless I can see it is on a dps that WILL take damage soon, only thing I would change in it is either make Life Tap / Seal of Blood trigger it or make those not accountable for its jumps, crits are just too good to be true on them.

Greater Heal is a too big too slow heal for anything but MT healing right now, has its place, has its uses, stack haste to bring it down to 2 secs cast and you will never get tired of using it.

Binding Heal is an excellent spell which I use very often, usually following a Circle of Healing, it heal a lot on me and a target in need, gives me very little aggro and is extremely fast, I love it.

Renew is perfect, don't touch it, same goes for flash heal.

But then we got Prayer of Healing, a good spell, slow, true but a lot better now that pushback only goes so far, problem on raids is often we gotta spread and group formation is something they don't want us priests to go complaining about. Make it group heal but target-able group and I will use this spell a lot more, hell this spell would make me want to reduce holy spells pushback with that nifty talent on holy tree. We need one more aoe able healing with CoH healing so small amounts on a 6 secs cd now, this spell can easily fill that gap with excellency.

Lightwell. Great healing, very useful, totally useless when they call it a slacker spell. I don't control it, dps have to be too close to it (and well on raids we are often spreading) and dps often do not want to: 1 loose their target, making lightwell simply have them reaquire the last target they had would fix that; 2 they don't click things, yeah dps use key bindings, they are often enough barely aware of a mouse click for anything but camera movement and targeting.

Lightwell would rock if it was passively doing its job, or be under my control, like any time I cast a healing spell it heals a nearby (30yard) target for a fraction of my spell, it targets smartly, dont need to be targetable for that to work, never targets the same one I did.

It would be very nice if it was a holy pet, but things would not bee very nice when I already can ahve one and I need to use it to get mana. It can work if it augments healing in an area, gives a hot effect to any healing that lands on a target inside an area or even if it simply ticks healing every X seconds on all targets inside radius.

Are those major changes to lightwell? Most definitely, but it needs it, the only reason it is not a good spell is that I have no control over it, it kinda ended up being my healing myself spell, even to the exclusion of binding heal.

Clearcasting is awesome, but sometimes I find my heals depending on it and making it a he dies or not situation whether it procs or not, throwing flash heals to try and make it happen so that I can actually keep the tank alive in a raid. The fact that procs that reduce mana cost are also used up alongside this effect is a major pain that simply reduces the utility of those trinkets, and tends to hurt an otherwise great ability.

Guardian Spirit is the new "Oh #**%" button holy priests have, it scales with raid, it keep the tank alive and it allows other healers to top him off simply because we use it, it just took the place of Power Word Shield on those situations, if it had less time on the CD it would be too good too.

Mana regen is impossible for holy pve on raids without Meditation, we also require our shadowfiend to keep up with other healers, the fiend should not be killed so easily by aoe though sometimes using it requires such a great timing it is simply an art. As a shadow priest I also take it, give or take no choice there.

Hymns are a bad joke, a really bad joke, often enough Divine Hymn is useless for anything but a priests way of running away from too many mobs he pulled when soloing and Hymn of Faith is bordeline bad unles you got at least 3 people around you needing mana, and since other healers don't seem to have that much trouble and channeling counts as casting, we just stand there and let FSR regen our mana instead, either more effect on ourselves or no channeling required and this could be used, I am more in favor of augmented effect on ourselves, the other can easily become too good.

None says it but Inner Fire is great past 70 now, spell damage is great, the problem with it is how little it lasts, the fact that it is more than half a priest's armor (and we do need it) and it has charges make keeping it up on pvp a problem and on pve an art. It can also bi dispelled, which is bad for us, it is an armor like a mage's or a warlock'

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Q u o t e:


You know been wondering on doing the same thing you did... reroll a druid. Sad, real sad, but true.

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Druid healing feels like what priest healing use to be, now that they have Nourish. Imagine if flash heal got another 20% heal bonus if Renew or Weakened Soul was on your target... that's Nourish.

Good stuff. I don't feel like I lost anything at all in the transition, and I gained so much more.

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Q u o t e:
I would point out the chance of getting an actual response to this is > 1%. I've rarely seen GC respond to threads that ask for him.

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Fail

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Q u o t e:

Hymns are a bad joke, a really bad joke, often enough Divine Hymn is useless for anything but a priests way of running away from too many mobs he pulled when soloing and Hymn of Faith is bordeline bad unles you got at least 3 people around you needing mana, and since other healers don't seem to have that much trouble and channeling counts as casting, we just stand there and let FSR regen our mana instead, either more effect on ourselves or no channeling required and this could be used, I am more in favor of augmented effect on ourselves, the other can easily become too good.

None says it but Inner Fire is great past 70 now, spell damage is great, the problem with it is how little it lasts, the fact that it is more than half a priest's armor (and we do need it) and it has charges make keeping it up on pvp a problem and on pve an art. It can also bi dispelled, which is bad for us, it is an armor like a mage's or a warlock'

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ok... to retract previous negative statements regrarding divine hymn... I kind of like this spell now. Yes, the mechanic are pretty impossible, but it can heal upward to 30k of damage. i use it in Halls of lightning and saph or any other situation when everyone is below 50% and I need "a little helper HOT." Pair this spell with PoH or CoH and you have a nice aoe heal.

Inner fire is much improved, but there really is no reason for charges. There isn't a reason why it cant be a 30min buff either. It's really just a pain in the ass to remember to buff yourself constantly, and in long fights it wears off on occasion. Throw us a bone and make it like a pally buff. Hell make it a utility spell so we can cast it on others.

Too bad all the utility has already pased out among the other classes. Inner fire (in its current form) would have been an awesome spell to include in raid utility.

NERF a TOTEM, give priests some utility!

I want large sweeping changes. Those are always guaranteed to make something overpowered.

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Q u o t e:
I want large sweeping changes. Those are always guaranteed to make something overpowered.

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lol

(ret)

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

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This sounds an awful lot like blizzard is considering putting meditation further down the talent tree because it feels our mana regen is (or should be) fine without it.....

...i'm thinking that this is not a good time for another major priest nerf....

...sensing just a smitch of anger from priests already....

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Q u o t e:
I dont agree innervate and Divine please is OP, its a class skill, and each class should have "special" abilities.

I DO agree if you read between these lines, we are certainly going to lose mediation now. And there is probably NOTHING that can be done about it.

I hope Im wrong.

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Divine Plea is absurdly overpowered.

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Q u o t e:


We have talked about doing something like this. However, as confusing as it can be, one of the things we get from MP5 is a different stat that might appeal to some players (depending on class and play style) more than others. With a change like you suggest, then Spirit becomes something everyone wants in large amounts, and we lose some of the difference in play style. (A few players mention this above.) Traditionally, paladins never cared much about Spirit regen because they were never out of the five second rule, while druids cared quite a bit because they could sit back and let hots tick. This changed toward the end of BC.



The purpose of talents like Meditation was not to allow you to ignore the five second rule. The FSR is there to reward casters who can occasionally take a break to allow for regen. We are concerned that some of the talent and gear choices that we've introduced have allowed players to opt out of the FSR.

Int can be beneficial to any Spirit-based healer now that Int also affects regen. Depending on your class and spec, it can even be better than Spirit.

Overall though I think you are interpreting my comments too narrowly. There is no reason for us to move Meditation or even make it baseline if we change the numbers or the mechanics behind regen. Since signs point to regen becoming too trivial in the future (thereby making stats benefitting regen unattractive) this is something we are looking into.

The whole mechanic for mana regen (for all classes) is something we're not entirely happy with.

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Are you only looking at meditation? It says that you had ideas for all trees "bloat". Any other things we can look forward to besides maybe a change to regen/Meditation?