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Q u o t e:
Next expansion.

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story of the priest class

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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Unfortunately, meditation isn't a decision. In Disc PvE spec, Holy PvE spec, Disc PvP spec, Holy PvP spec, I simply MUST get meditation.

There is not a single talent in either tree that meets the same qualifications. It isn't my biggest concern with the Priest class by a longshot, but it is certainly the type of problem you described above.

While mana regen is not a huge issue, this is hugely due to meditation. If I were to drop it, mana regen would go from "somewhat an issue" to "oh my god, I'm out of mana 1 minute into Malygos". This is the same for every spec and playstyle of the Priest class.

My advice, from a longtime Priest, is to do one of a few things:

A. Remove meditation, make it baseline. Replace the talent with something non-regen related.

B. Create a talent deep in shadow and holy that mimics Meditation, but does not stack with it.

C. Put Meditation in tier 1 or 2 of Disc instead of 3.

D. Leave it as is.

To be honest, this really is a quality of life thing for me. There are a few talents I'd love to have in Holy that I have to leave behind for meditation. Yes, the whole idea behind talents is to choose which ones you'd like, but I feel locked into meditation. That's not necessarily a good thing when trying to be flexible with your spec.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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I think it would be helpful if you started a thread like you did for warlocks for us. The whole class has been redisigned by defaut. In bringing us to par in healing with others the class is different then it was. I think one of the things leading people to being angry is not just class bais but the lack of understanding of what the class role for priest is at this point, It would be very nice I think to get some direction and find out where we are going,

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Q u o t e:
Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

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huh?

If people are stacking Spirit for regen then how would meditation be les smandatory? If anything it would be MORE mandatory.

and if u havnt been looking around, people ARE stacking int/spirit for regen, tho it is lot more viable now to use other stats than it was in BC.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

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Mana management isn't fun. Being as active as possible, and trying to get off as many heals as you can to heal though lots of varied damage is. You made threat beyond easy for tanks because "threat wasn't fun." I think you should do the same for healers, and stop trying to shove mana management down our throats, instead of GCD management, and intelligent spell choices, as it should be.

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Q u o t e:
Mana management isn't fun. Being as active as possible, and trying to get off as many heals as you can to heal though lots of varied damage is. You made threat beyond easy for tanks because "threat wasn't fun." I think you should do the same for healers, and stop trying to shove mana management down our throats, instead of GCD management, and intelligent spell choices, as it should be.

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QFT. I agree 100%

Up regen to what it was at, and make Replenishment less mandatory.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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no offense GC, but i think i'd rather be disappointed with a faulty deadline knowing you guys are trying your hardest. then coming in here every day not knowing if you guys are even working on healing.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

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Uh, why precisely would you stack spirit without meditation? With current priest tiered gear etc (which is obviously itemised on the assumption you have meditation) this talent is worth upwards of 400 mp5. This isn't optional.

What would make a lot more sense is moving meditation to holy and adding a % of int -> mp5 to deep disc.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

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I'm not sure how you can tell with content as easy as it is. My guild's raids run a little healer heavy because, well, we can. You can chain pull, AoE the crap out of everything, stand in the fire, and still breeze through it all. I don't really have mana issues, but I don't really have healing challenges either.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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Why are you saying you want to encourage people to branch out into other trees yet trying so hard to ruin Dreamstate healing builds for Druids? Just a thought, since Dreamstate was better for PvP yet you are adding PvP functionality to tree form by giving it armor bonuses and allowing it to cast any spell needed even HT and Nourish and at the same time moving all the powerful Balance talents for Resto into low tiers so anyone can get them without investing more then 11 points in Balance.

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Q u o t e:


Uh, why precisely would you stack spirit without meditation? With current priest tiered gear etc (which is obviously itemised on the assumption you have meditation) this talent is worth upwards of 400 mp5. This isn't optional.

What would make a lot more sense is moving meditation to holy and adding a % of int -> mp5 to deep disc.

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Communication between the designers and community is nice, but every day my jaw just drops closer to the floor with some of the things said. How does a priest go about getting adequate regen without specing meditation... ughhh

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Q u o t e:
There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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I hope that making them pvp viable is one of the things that you plan to do, because up to this point it's been very clear that your concerns with priests rely almost entirely with their functionality in pve.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

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I really don't like the way you said that. It sounds like you're saying Meditation is too good because it gives us too much mana regen.

Mana regen is fine right now. The only problem with Meditation is its position in the trees. Remove it from the trees and make it a baseline passive ability (which everyone knows is completely doable) or at least bump it down to a lower tier.

The whole Priest community has been begging for this for a long time and you guys have refused to look into it until now, and now you sound like you're going in a completely different direction than you should.

Getting rid of Meditation or nerfing it would completely destroy spirit regen for Priests.

GC, nowadays, even in the easy content I have to pay 100% attention to every facet of my class and fire off precision heals like a machine gun. If I miss a GCD, someone often dies. I constantly make up for the poor play of others. That will rise with harder content and AoE heal nerfing on Priests and Druid's.

There's never a point where I ignore my mana or that I don't feel limited by it on a boss where I truly should, but if I suddenly have to be sweating it like an axe over my head along with the entire welfare of the raid on every GCD on every cast I choose every single time I step foot into the game, well...

What I'm trying to say is that not all of us are in ideal gear in ideal raids in ideal situations. And even those who are have enough to worry about with just getting heals off carrying the raid, which can be a bit exhausting even as is even in "easy" content.

Slowing down the scaling of regen stats in favor of more stamina, or other goodies is reasonable if you're going to cool down on psychotic damage bursts and aoe during raids, putting the entire encounter in the healers hands. But going back and trashing good mechanics and abilities and stepping on toes is kind of a bit much.

TL:DR: Please be careful when you address mana regen going into Ulduar, and please keep in mind that healers want a break too. I love healing, but I already feel so much more like a breakneck 10-25 man babysitter of children running around with fun toys than I did during Classic or BC on any of the fights with a bit of challenge.

I wouldn't say something like "LOL IZA GONNA QUIT IF U DO DIS" because I still like WoW even if i disagree with design concepts, but I honest to god would drop both of my healers for permanent DPS. =/ I already feel like a fatman on a treadmill on a healer (Priest/Paladin experience only in LK raiding to be fair) during EoE, or multi Drake OS compared to having fun on my DK going through simple rotations with no stress or worry that if I miss an Icy Touch, the raid wipes.

And yes *points at tank threat fixes*. Tank threat is one thing that made the game more enjoyable for tanks and DPS alike. Getting a similar bit of treatment isn't too much to ask when healing is really probably the only difficult portion of the game at the moment.

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Q u o t e:
One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid. We're trying to get a better feel for what to do with mana regen at the moment.

One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree. Where it gets tricky is when it doesn't feel like a decision. Meditation has felt like that at some stages in the game, but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory.

There are some other things we want to do with the Priest talent trees. It shouldn't take until next expansion. However I am extremely reluctant to give hard or even estimated timelines for things like this. You can see how some players can get impatient even with vauge timelines.

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I just wanna say thanks for the feed back GC and also guys take it easy on GC please state how we feel but plz dont throw instults

I also just wanna say and this is only imo, I think meditation is basically a Needed talent for just about every tree in both PvE and PvP and that it seems that priests were built around spirit regen so that it might make sence changing meditation BUT is it really worth changing? Are there other things that should be changed first? like making our hymns useful or making shadow fiend a relaible mana regen ability? or maybe strengthening the disc tree? We have all specced meditation for how many years now? I really dont think meditation is the most of our worries