cost =/= money

it can mean money.

but it doesnt always mean money

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Q u o t e:
cost =/= money

it can mean money.

but it doesnt always mean money

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^ this.

Something as simple as a one hour cooldown on swapping speccs outside a city would leave it convenient while stopping people from swapping speccs every pull. The 'cost' is being locked into one specc for an hour unless you hearth.

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Q u o t e:
I doubt it will be free to switch specs. It would be kind of silly to be able to switch from one spec to another at will. For example as a DK if i was tanking a dungeon i could use an unholy tank spec for trash, then switch to blood for a boss. and the idea of a cooldown on spec switching is kind of ridiculous, i dont want to switch specs to tank, then have to wait hours to switch back to my dps spec when im done (not necessarily saying the CD will be hours, just stating an opinion). Having a cost on the switch puts some weight on the decision to switch specs. Making the respec free just kind of cheapens the idea of having a talent spec.

Besides for me id rather just pay up the 50 gold, or however much they decide to make it rather than waiting hours to switch back to my dps spec. Especially since gold comes pretty easy nowadays.

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Well then, how about a cooldown on the switch, but if you really want to change you pay 50 gold?

This is a much needed change IMO, especially for healers. If a PUG 25man needs dps and not heals, I'm gonna have to pay 50g to respec to go with them. (This happened to me just last night with a Vault run; dps was terribad on the first run through where I was healing, we re-organized and had no problems, but I had to respec dps).

I don't want to have to pay 50g to run something. That would make me want to switch to deeps permanently.

I think there should be one (and only one) restriction: you should not be able to change specs for different bosses in a single raid. This should be tied to raid ids; when you are saved to an instance, your spec should be saved as well. Any time you zone into that raid instance your spec becomes the saved one.

For BG/Arena, you should be able to change spec during the preparation period, but not during the battle.

Switching specs should simply require you to channel for 30-60 seconds. Any damage or entering combat breaks the channel.

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Q u o t e:
I think there should be one (and only one) restriction: you should not be able to change specs for different bosses in a single raid.

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Why not? If you are allowd to change speccs mid raid by hearthing and respeccing (as many guilds expect people to do at the cutting edge of content), why should raiders not be allowed to use their two speccs on raid speccs? If nothing else, this would allow the option for developers to design off-the-wall raid fights that recquire a unique raid make-up without causing as many issues for groups doing it.

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Q u o t e:
I think there should be one (and only one) restriction: you should not be able to change specs for different bosses in a single raid. This should be tied to raid ids; when you are saved to an instance, your spec should be saved as well. Any time you zone into that raid instance your spec becomes the saved one.

For BG/Arena, you should be able to change spec during the preparation period, but not during the battle.

Switching specs should simply require you to channel for 30-60 seconds. Any damage or entering combat breaks the channel.

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What is the reason for restricting specs in a raid? This is not game breaking, and in fact allows raids to bring the player, not the class/spec that player is currently.

I think allowing players to swap specs outside of combat without any penalties is in line with Blizzard's new thinking on classes: Bring the player, not the class.

Please tell me that I'm not going to have to pay each time I hit the "swap spec" button. I would much rather pay an upfront 10k(please feel free to make it cost less) bill than have to pay 50g each time I do it and feel guilty if I don't get my 100g out of it. Let alone the fact it doesn't help with the problems of instances requiring different numbers of tanks/healers for encounters which this is suppose to help alleviate.

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Q u o t e:


What is the reason for restricting specs in a raid? This is not game breaking, and in fact allows raids to bring the player, not the class/spec that player is currently.

I think allowing players to swap specs outside of combat without any penalties is in line with Blizzard's new thinking on classes: Bring the player, not the class.

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They want it to be easy but no trivial where you can sit in a major city and swap your spec all day by clicking your mouse. While I do agree with your statement I don't think blizzard allow that.

As for the cost of dual specs. I'm going to put this in bold and pray I don't get yelled at.

Switching between spec A and spec B should and more than likely will be FREE. It's CHANGING the talent builds for spec A and spec B that will cost money. The point of dual specs is to make things easier for classes that serve multiple roles or for someone who wants to make a pvp and pve build.

Oh hey..I just realized I'm not posting on my hunter that started this thread. Oh well.

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Q u o t e:


Well then, how about a cooldown on the switch, but if you really want to change you pay 50 gold?

This is a much needed change IMO, especially for healers. If a PUG 25man needs dps and not heals, I'm gonna have to pay 50g to respec to go with them. (This happened to me just last night with a Vault run; dps was terribad on the first run through where I was healing, we re-organized and had no problems, but I had to respec dps).

I don't want to have to pay 50g to run something. That would make me want to switch to deeps permanently.

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I like

Thank you GC


You know...hearthing to town to hit a button to respec...and then get summoned back to the raid, would increase the Warlock's viability to be in a raid.
Think Paladins and buffs, The Magi and water...The Warlock and the need to summon me back 5x a raid.



Dragum
EAD

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Q u o t e:


What is the reason for restricting specs in a raid? This is not game breaking, and in fact allows raids to bring the player, not the class/spec that player is currently.

I think allowing players to swap specs outside of combat without any penalties is in line with Blizzard's new thinking on classes: Bring the player, not the class.

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I'm a tank. When I do Naxx10 I'm either MT or OT, depending on who else is tanking. But some fights only require 1 tank. So for Healbot or Sapphiron, for example, I'm often in DPS mode (cat).

I'd like to use my second spec for healing. But with the proposed system, I'd probably be quite reasonably expected to use my second spec for DPS for those fights when only 1 tank is needed. (This is of course for future progression content, not something as easy as Naxx.)

This will not, as you say, cause raids to bring the player instead of the class. Instead of LF Healer or LF Resto Druid, it will be LF Healer/DPS dualspec or LF Resto/Balance dualspec Druid.

There's also the gear issue for hybrids. Currently, if I want to do hard content I will need a full set of proper high-level tanking gear. With the new system, the bar will be raised and I will need 2 sets of high-level gear to be good enough for a long, challenging instance.

Tying spec to raidid solves these problems.

Ghostcrawler,

Macros (not addons) and keybinds are an officially supported feature of the game and even have server storage now. Considering how differenbt my macros and keybinds are across specs I wonder whether your system could please store and swap these settings when we respec?

Otherwise the feature will be less usable until a third party author handles this issue.

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Q u o t e:
We haven't finalized the design, because ideally we want to be able to get it on a PTR and have players try it out.

Our thought at the moment is that swapping specs (going from A to B) will truly be free in towns and possibly during the prep phase of PvP. In an instance it may cost a nominal fee (think reagent level). We want you to be able to do it when you want to do it, but we also don't want to slow things down if everyone is constantly flipping spec from fight to fight. But if it's free in town, then obviously it can't be more of a burden out of town than just hearthing and being summoned back is or nobody will use the remote option.

Someone helpfully quoted our response on why we are likely to launch the feature with "only" 2 specs.

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Thanks GC! I think that sounds like a good idea. Reagent costs are a perfect level for out of town spec swapping. That will make us think and really pay if we want to switch specs many times (so basically make us think at least a little before switching), but still allow us to not incur any cost while waiting in dalaran for a group.

Even if you guys don't allow us to store multiple sets of armor in our character sheet, I think this dual spec feature will be a terrific addition and really make healing/tanking a lot more appealing to many hybrids. In addition it will make it a lot more appealing for pure classes to PvE and PvP, and even try different specs for different fights (since a lot of abilities, esp rogue, are situational; some are really good for trash, others better for boses). I can see a lot of customization coming into play here that will add a whole other layer to the game, which will allow players to more fully get the most out of their class.

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Q u o t e:


I'm a tank. When I do Naxx10 I'm either MT or OT, depending on who else is tanking. But some fights only require 1 tank. So for Healbot or Sapphiron, for example, I'm often in DPS mode (cat).

I'd like to use my second spec for healing. But with the proposed system, I'd probably be quite reasonably expected to use my second spec for DPS for those fights when only 1 tank is needed. (This is of course for future progression content, not something as easy as Naxx.)

This will not, as you say, cause raids to bring the player instead of the class. Instead of LF Healer or LF Resto Druid, it will be LF Healer/DPS dualspec or LF Resto/Balance dualspec Druid.

There's also the gear issue for hybrids. Currently, if I want to do hard content I will need a full set of proper high-level tanking gear. With the new system, the bar will be raised and I will need 2 sets of high-level gear to be good enough for a long, challenging instance.

Tying spec to raidid solves these problems.

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Well, I don't think they are going to stop at 2 specs. They've said they would like to get more specs than just two, but due to the newness of this feature they'd like to just start with the two.

If people could set up multiple specs to swap out, would that be a problem? It just sounds like the game would become more complex, more involved, and all around more demanding. I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. It's a little bit too easy mode now, and this change will allow people to spend more time developing their character, and really discovering more about their role.

Honestly I think if raids are looking for versatile players, that's not a bad thing. A versatile player who can tank, dps and heal is usually a good player and one you want in your raid. Granted, there are those who don't want to do any of those other two things, and just want to DPS.. that's why they roll rogue/mage/warlock/hunter.

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Q u o t e:


I'm a tank. When I do Naxx10 I'm either MT or OT, depending on who else is tanking. But some fights only require 1 tank. So for Healbot or Sapphiron, for example, I'm often in DPS mode (cat).

I'd like to use my second spec for healing. But with the proposed system, I'd probably be quite reasonably expected to use my second spec for DPS for those fights when only 1 tank is needed. (This is of course for future progression content, not something as easy as Naxx.)

This will not, as you say, cause raids to bring the player instead of the class. Instead of LF Healer or LF Resto Druid, it will be LF Healer/DPS dualspec or LF Resto/Balance dualspec Druid.

There's also the gear issue for hybrids. Currently, if I want to do hard content I will need a full set of proper high-level tanking gear. With the new system, the bar will be raised and I will need 2 sets of high-level gear to be good enough for a long, challenging instance.

Tying spec to raidid solves these problems.

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Right now, you're expected to hearth and respec to optimize (if not get swapped out for another player) on the cutting-edge content.

Or you would be, if there were more cutting-edge content in the game. (The hardest stuff at the moment being a couple of bosses who have their own instances: 3-drake Sarth and Malygos.)

Given a raid that progression-oriented, this new design can only save you money (or your raid spot). Given a less progression-oriented raid, this new design can only improve whatever your off-role is when you're called upon to do it.

Either way, you win by being able to swap mid-instance. And if it gives you an excuse to roll on more gear, why complain? If you use a DKP system (and most raids do), just refuse to spend it on your off-role until your main role is completely geared.

Only good can come of this.

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Q u o t e:
We haven't finalized the design, because ideally we want to be able to get it on a PTR and have players try it out.

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I do appreciate the amount of work required for this sort of thing, but couldn't you release the basic framework of it now and work on the "features" later? Because to be honest, I can live for a few weeks or months without having my glyphs and hotbars swap with my spec, and same with my gear (I already have a mod that does that anyways).

But what really sucks for me is having to do dailies every day as Holy with no reprieve. It also sucks standing around in Naxx with my thumb up my butt because the two AoE healers can handle the trash on their own, leaving me with nothing to do but my terrible Holy DPS until we get to a boss.

If I had to swap Glyphs and hotbar slots manually for awhile until everything was ready, I could easily live with that.

If you're worried about game breaking aspects of people being able to easily respec in the middle of an instance, don't allow that. I think most people would be more than happy to have a spec that applies out in the wide world, and a new spec that auto applies when they enter an instance. If you want to be really nice, a third spec that applies when you enter a BG/Arena/Wintergrasp and you're set.

I'm curious as to how this works. Do i pick 2 specs and lock em in as Spec A and Spec B?

If so, then i can pay gold to change em (respec) whenever i want (at trainers obv) yes?

Can i then respec into whatever random third spec i want without affecting Spec A or Spec B?

I guess my main concern is flexibility beyond the dual specs. In fact the 'dual spec' isn't even really defined.

I won't lie, i'm concerned.

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Q u o t e:
Ghostcrawler,

Macros (not addons) and keybinds are an officially supported feature of the game and even have server storage now. Considering how different my macros and keybinds are across specs I wonder whether your system could please store and swap these settings when we respec?

Otherwise the feature will be less usable until a third party author handles this issue.

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I agree. I like the fact that we were given more macro slots with 3.0, but disappointed to discover it only applied to the account-wide macros. I use up almost all of my character macro slots as it is just to change all of my healing spells to mouseover target, and if I'm expected to have two different specs, I'd really appreciate the character-specific macro limit being raised.

I will use an addon that gives me more macros if I have to, but I think it would be nice if we had as many character-specific macros as we do account-wide ones.