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Q u o t e:


I'm sure that, with proper brainstorming session, many unique abilities can be given to any class that needs distance, to allow them to make distance from melee.

* Abilities that reduce damage have been dished out to many classes. How about something that deters the opponent from hitting you, by reflecting damage and snaring on hit (mages have the snare portion)?
* Abilities that strengthen the pet as you receive damage are also conducive to warlocks, as they can actually live through few hits (unlike mages). Having the pet become 50% stronger and healthier per hit would deter people from hitting the warlock for a short time. Such a buff would, of course, have to be visible, to allow other player to stop attacking (unless stricken with stupid).
* Things that multiply existing pets, or summon new foes if Warlock is stricken while buff is in effect.
* Things that weaken enemy damage by severe percentages if they continue to hit.
* Short range auras that punish stats and damage if one does not make distance, forcing player to CHOOSE to make distance.
* Other types of snares, reflects, reducers, etc.

All kinds of things can be thought out that don't require other player to lose control of character, but punish them (in a medieval, demonic kind of way :)) if they chose to swing their hammer.

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Exactly. While I still enjoy playing my warlock (although it's mostly PvE), it has gotten to the point that I can no longer ignore my brethren screaming in the background. I just think that all that creative energy that went into the Death Knight class should not be just used to create new classes. The Warlock class's new spells were underwhelming. They added no survivability, no game changing abilities, and even the new panic button (meta) wasn't up to par.

On the deterrence, why not have a 3-5 second curse on a 30sec-1min cooldown that deals 100% of the warlock's full health as damage, but only if the warlock is killed when thee effect is going. That would DEFINITELY be a deterrent to all but the hardiest of players. And, with the cooldown, it cannot be spammed enough to be useful. I like the way I deal damage, I just wish I could stick around to see it work enough.

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Q u o t e:
People are missing the point on a larger point, how did this even come to pass? Really the game has been in beta for how long? And the game has been live for over a month now. I'm more concerned about the beta part here, and how the development team dropped the ball on a few classes. I would like to know if it was simply a lack of resources, or perhaps was it just poor decisions that led us here, maybe both. In any event the problem is here and needs to be addressed.

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Yes, but if something is true, it is that complaining about past decisions yields no responses nor consideration, at least not from GC (for what that's worth).

Putting forth Problem-->Suggestion or simply Suggestion posts may yield more.

As an example, I put forth many suggestions during Beta (about 6-7 posts), and I continue insofar. I even made a suggestion in Beta about percentage-based mana burns. Did their game change come from my post, or from another's, or as a coincidence? I don't know, but it never hurts to be pro-active, positive, while making sure you have an alt to fall back on (I played a Feral Druid during BC as main, for example).

It takes a great deal of effort to also see things from a perspective of a class that just wiped the floor with you in BG/Arena. Emotions skew perception.

Sigh, car analogies are always fail, GC. Please don't go there.

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Q u o t e:
I'm not sure anything new is being said in this thread that hasn't been said already.

I did post a list of what we wanted to do with warlocks in LK and now that we have done those changes, we have a new list of what we want to look at in warlocks next. A few players linked it. I could have found the quote myself but I figured the community would be able to do it faster, which they did.

I am sorry if my communication sometimes seems disjoined. Reading all of these threads takes a great deal of time that I try to squeeze in during my other responsibilities. To some extent you're going to get what you're going to get. That may not sit well, but the alternatives are to give up on posting altogether or at least post a lot less frequently. I don't see a way I will be able to spend more time here than I do already. (As most of you know, I'm not a CM. I also don't want to hire people to read the forums for me, because that defeats the purpose. But I do have a lot going on.)

I think there is some truth to the notion that after enough tweaks here and there that you need to step back and take a big look at the class as a whole. I think we've reached this point with warlocks. We are satisfied with the changes we wanted to make in BC, which included things like giving Affliction more competitive damage, giving Destruction more than one button to push, and getting Demonology to consider more different types of demons. When I say we want to make some changes to the class, I would not interpret this as burning warlocks to the ground and starting over. Overall it's still a really cool and distinctive play style.

I'll reach for an analogy here, which can be illustrative but will also break if streteched too far, as all analogies do. We've spent some time checking the tire pressure and vacuuming out the interior, but every few thousand miles you want to actually pop the hood, check all the belts and hoses, and possibly even rebuild the engine. That is not the same as driving her off a cliff and then hitting the dealers for a newer model.

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Do you honestly think you reached a point you're happy with on those issues though?

Demonology really doesn't look at any pets unless you're spec'd into a hybrid build. They still use the Felguard above all pets because the other pets, while having significantly more overall utility, simply don't compare in the Felguards survivability or damage. And you're still at a point where the bulk of our pets (Imp, Succubus, Voidwalker) have no PvP value and in some cases, no PVE value either.

Even forcing the pets on the other trees I'd consider a total failure seeing as how they are such an enormous liability and don't accomplish much of anything while active. Even the improvement talents in Affliction (specifically) and Destruction don't help much at all for anything. In the case of Affliction the tree is so bloated one can't even get the talents even if they did offer a large enough impact to be considered.

Affliction's rotation, by your own admission which you haven't commented on for some time, is much more complicated then you wanted it to be. Even Destruction's rotation can't really be considered ideal considering it's still significantly more complex then what nearly every other class has to deal with and yet it, along with Affliction, really aren't rewarded at all for their added complexity.

Then there are the problems of DOTs, a total lack of survivability and answers to melee, and the reliance on casted spells in all 3 trees removing any real mobility (which is ironic for a DOT spec to have the least mobility of all 3 trees) the class has.

Destruction, in theory, is our burst tree but even if it can bring its burst out (which is difficult at best) still doesn't compare to what other classes are capable of.

Demonology is nothing but an assortment of talents to make the Warlock absorb damage, but it lacks any real killing power on its own and can't get any from the other trees.

Affliction is just a Horse drawn Carriage on the Interstate. It just doesn't work. You've designed a game entirely around burst and the tree has none, nor does it have enough control, debuffs, incoming health, or survivability to offset any of it. And this is completely ignoring the simple fact that DOTs can't kill anything in PvP.

I really hate to tell you GC, but using your analogy, I think it's obvious you're going to find at the very least you're going to need a battery, and even then you're looking at only getting another few thousand miles out of it.

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Q u o t e:
Sigh, car analogies are always fail, GC. Please don't go there.

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Car analogies are fine. Don't cry for information then complain about how it was delivered.

analogies fail. would rather hear facts.

Even simple facts like it will be long time before we are able to do anything with the warlock.

Blizzard is spending too much time tuning up their BMW that the engine on the jalopy stopped running and is sitting on the side of the road.

see analogies fail.

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Q u o t e:
analogies fail. would rather hear facts.

Even simple facts like it will be long time before we are able to do anything with the warlock.

Blizzard is spending too much time tuning up their BMW that the engine on the jalopy stopped running and is sitting on the side of the road.

see analogies fail.

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Yet time after time when they give specifics people take those and run with them and completely misinterpret and quote it 23048234 times in the wrong context.

They also will not give facts and exact details as to what they are thinking for the class, because god forbid they change their minds their will be an almighty QQ.

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Q u o t e:
I'm not sure anything new is being said in this thread that hasn't been said already.

I did post a list of what we wanted to do with warlocks in LK and now that we have done those changes, we have a new list of what we want to look at in warlocks next. A few players linked it. I could have found the quote myself but I figured the community would be able to do it faster, which they did.

I am sorry if my communication sometimes seems disjoined. Reading all of these threads takes a great deal of time that I try to squeeze in during my other responsibilities. To some extent you're going to get what you're going to get. That may not sit well, but the alternatives are to give up on posting altogether or at least post a lot less frequently. I don't see a way I will be able to spend more time here than I do already. (As most of you know, I'm not a CM. I also don't want to hire people to read the forums for me, because that defeats the purpose. But I do have a lot going on.)

I think there is some truth to the notion that after enough tweaks here and there that you need to step back and take a big look at the class as a whole. I think we've reached this point with warlocks. We are satisfied with the changes we wanted to make in BC, which included things like giving Affliction more competitive damage, giving Destruction more than one button to push, and getting Demonology to consider more different types of demons. When I say we want to make some changes to the class, I would not interpret this as burning warlocks to the ground and starting over. Overall it's still a really cool and distinctive play style.

I'll reach for an analogy here, which can be illustrative but will also break if streteched too far, as all analogies do. We've spent some time checking the tire pressure and vacuuming out the interior, but every few thousand miles you want to actually pop the hood, check all the belts and hoses, and possibly even rebuild the engine. That is not the same as driving her off a cliff and then hitting the dealers for a newer model.

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I would say, as far as your role on these forums, that you are doing a great job communicating with the player base - and the quality of the communication far surpasses my expectations.

I'm not going to comment other than this - I hope to see the same quality of class design that I've come to expect from Blizzard products, including WoW - I know you are capable - I just hope you do well with us. I want to have fun again.

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Q u o t e:


Yet time after time when they give specifics people take those and run with them and completely misinterpret and quote it 23048234 times in the wrong context.

They also will not give facts and exact details as to what they are thinking for the class, because god forbid they change their minds their will be an almighty QQ.

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Not in the case of Warlocks, as no facts/specifics have been given. So... yea?

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Q u o t e:
I think we've reached this point with warlocks. We are satisfied with the changes we wanted to make in BC, ... and getting Demonology to consider more different types of demons.

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Wait what?

~GC on Warlocks:

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Q u o t e:
"... driving [warlocks] off a cliff and then hitting the dealers for a newer [class]."

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(Yea, it's bad and horribly out of context. But I had to snip it. Don't take is seriously. XD)

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Q u o t e:


Not in the case of Warlocks, as no facts/specifics have been given. So... yea?

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You're thinking short term. I'm talking about over the course of this games history. Developers or CMs post details and if things aren't carried out as the community saw or hoped they should have or as they interpreted, we get things like dot shock, bus shock, etc, etc. So... yeah?

Everyone thinks they are broken and need help. Right now the DK community is crying over needed nerfs, believing they are now broken. Only a handful admit the nerfs were needed.

Warlocks have legitimate complaints, so do Shaman. However the fact is most people on these boards have no clue how to communicate effectively and instead fill their respective class/role boards with clutter that ends up making GCs job harder.

", and getting Demonology to consider more different types of demons."

I dont know if it just me or what, but i dont feel that happening.

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Q u o t e:


I'll reach for an analogy here, which can be illustrative but will also break if streteched too far, as all analogies do. We've spent some time checking the tire pressure and vacuuming out the interior, but every few thousand miles you want to actually pop the hood, check all the belts and hoses, and possibly even rebuild the engine. That is not the same as driving her off a cliff and then hitting the dealers for a newer model.

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How long will my car be at the mechanic?
And how much will it cost me?

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Q u o t e:


On the deterrence, why not have a 3-5 second curse on a 30sec-1min cooldown that deals 100% of the warlock's full health as damage, but only if the warlock is killed when thee effect is going. That would DEFINITELY be a deterrent to all but the hardiest of players. And, with the cooldown, it cannot be spammed enough to be useful. I like the way I deal damage, I just wish I could stick around to see it work enough.

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I find this to be very intriguing,

1) its a defensive cooldown that's not just another immunity effect (ala pally bubble, iceblock or new hunter deterence)

2) its not trinket-able

3) fits the warlocks flavor very nicely

Things it would need:

1) very visible to opponents

2) to be tagged on to an existing ability (most likley), im looking at you Curse of Doom

If I must be a car, I want to be something like thanatos ride in piers anathony's on a pale horse- a mean low to the ground black machine with some get away and oomph. Right now I feel like I'm driving a convertible volkswagon alongside a battalion of tanks into an invasion- fragile, exposed, vulnerable, underpowered.