The true issue with pvp in my mind is this:

HP has not scaled at the same rate as dps. Stunlock lasts just as long. People will die regardless of taking slightly less critical damage.

My question GC is as follows:
At the end of S4 things were relatively balanced in arena in one respect - duel dps and healer/dps were both common. Sure individual classes were OP, but that is a different topic.

How long could a jumped priest in full S4(stam/resil socketed) survive a rogue in full S4 beating on them with stunlock rotation, finishing with a damaging move if they are in kill range?
Time to death = ???
How long can a jumped priest in full Hateful (stam/resil socketed) survive a rogue in full Hateful beating on them with a stunlock rotation, finishing with a damaging move if they are in kill range?
Time to death = ???

While HPS may have increased at the same rate as DPS... overall HP leaves people just waiting to be gibbed while locked up by any of the numerous cc effects.

I do not believe that this season is the same as the 4 before it. I am not bothering with it. If my Rogue gets to 80, then I may PvP, but I am not in a hurry.

GC, I think you are wrong. Also, we are aoe'ind down Heroics.

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Q u o t e:


1. you have to go get your RES gear by doing arenas

Not so. Did you know leather workers, tailors, and blacksmiths can craft an entire armor set of res gear for you? Now you do!

Not to mention there is a raid you can run for 2 arena items, Blue pvp gear of all shapes and sizes obtainable through emblems of heroism, and arena epic quality items obtainable through emblems of valor. get your facts straight.

2. blizz expects you to fail at for a long time.

Not so, I did quite well with my resto druid. got to 1550 in 6 games. (only one loss)

3. we think of ways to solve a major problem that we've known about but can't figure out how to do math

What math?
There hasn't been any data on level 80 arenas untill today
A minute fraction of forum QQ'ers arent exactly solid figures m8

Just wanted to make a post that not all healers agree with you. You make the argument that you must be right because, "the healing community says so." not exactly true

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doesnt really pvp

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Q u o t e:
Haven't done pvp since release of LK and proud of it.

Reasons why:
1) Why can armored classes run as fast me? Disadvantage one.
2) Why does healing not get advancement in honored points as much as dps. Disadvantage two.
3) Why do armored classes get things like dodge and parry while healing clothies can't get that passed enchants. Disadvantage three.
4) Why does resilience not solve the problem and to get any resilience gear I have to die 10k times to even get something decent. Disadvantage four.


Ways to fix PVP:
1) Disable all armors wearers fast moves (e.g. intercept) and change class running speeds to be relative to the armor they wear. If you wear cloth you run the fastest. Wear plate you run the slowest.
2) Make all healing spells instant if you are going to keeps stuns and interrupts. If not then healers stun removing trinket has a CD of only 6 seconds.
3) Eliminate all critical hits (both melee and spellcast variety)

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I have never heard more ridiculous suggestions in my life.

While awesome, the game-breaking factor makes me think this is a no-go there bud.

Simple fix: make arena ARMOR actually DEFENSIVE, not OFFENSIVE.

Why does ~80% of people agree with me. but flame the crap outta me....

(//_T)

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Q u o t e:
Remove all DPS stats. Done.

Seriously though, then the noobs cant do what was done in BC and use it as a filler for PvE gear, they wont 2-shot healers in arena, and most importantly....

IT WILL IMPROVE THE PLAY EXPERIENCE IN ARENA!

I play[ed] a resto/doomkin druid, ret/holy paladin, and a rogue (lolezmoad2k).

If all PvP gear were changed like this (examples follow):

Deadly Gladiator's Plate Chestpiece
Binds when picked up
Chest Plate
2298 Armor
+85 Strength
+150 Stamina
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +6 Resilience Rating
Durability 165 / 165
Classes: Warrior
Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 51 (1.11% @ L80).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 66 (0.81% @ L80).

to

Deadly Gladiator's Plate Chestpiece
Binds when picked up
Chest Plate
3200 Armor
+150 Stamina
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +6 Resilience Rating
Durability 165 / 165
Classes: Warrior
Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves expertise rating by 17 (0.5% @ L80).
Equip: Improves hit rating by 42 (1.28% @ L80).
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 60 (1.3% @ L80).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 75 (0.9% @ L80).


^Note: I dont know the iLvL of the above item with the new stats, this was just an example. You need to scale the stats yourselves. And yes, bonus armor on all PvP sets. =P

Basically increase all DEFENSIVE stats on the armor pieces (weaps stay offensive, this makes sense FFS). As new arena tiers are released, only increase the stats bolded for melee, including Spellpower for casters (NOT INT). The arena is supposed to be a strategyfest where you have to outskill an opponent to win. As it stands now, you dont even have the time to do much (most classes get rocked by rogues in about 4 seconds).

PLEASE CONSIDER THIS! (I will bump and repost this as much as needed. I posted this earning great support on beta forums a good while ago and it was ignored....BUT I SHALL TRIUMPH IN THE END!)

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Meh, just make it so that all damage is reduced by 50% in PvP ... that way it won't effect pve in any way shape or form.

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Q u o t e:
Dynamics shift dramatically as players acquire more resilience gear. Specs and comps that aren't viable in straight PvE gear become much more viable when burst damage decreases. We have seen this happen for four seasons now.

We haven't made an effort to keep the dynamic from shifting, nor do we think it's a problem that the dynamic shifts. On the contrary, if you didn't notice any effect from all that gladiator gear you were acquiring, it would be much less motivational as a reward..

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In my opinion a more reasonable approach to would be keep a balance the principle focus of the game. Whether you are playing checkers, chess or marbles, all games start off with all players balanced. Without balance, skill is less important, strategy falls by the wayside and the game becomes dull and boring.

To keep balance, S2 gear would have increased offensive and defensive stats giving you a bonus over a player in S1 gear but would put you on par with a player also is S2 gear. Healing would be equal to damage. Yin and Yang. This makes for a game that is challenging and requires skill. As players earn better gear the defensive and offensive stats remain balanced so when faced with an opponent in equal equipment the players skill is most important.

Sliding scales and logarithmic curves aside, with dps currently so out of proportion with healing and a wide array of stuns, lockouts, push-backs that are at other classes disposal there is no Yin to the dps Yang and that is a legitimate complaint.

By placing ratings on gear it is forcing healers into boring games where they are simply canon fodder just to get points to earn arena gear. The caveat, of course, is that dps-only teams are collecting points/ratings at an even greater rate since they're actually winning these games and the equipment deficit becomes insurmountable for healing spec'd players.

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Q u o t e:


The fact that the game moving in the direction of coordinating bursts around CC chains and DR timers with your partners, would be considered a "devolution", shows how truly out of touch blizzard is with their own PvP game. I honestly can't believe I am reading the above quote from a Blue.

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this

seriously that's abusrd

edit: GC, can you please clarify whether or not this statement came across as you had intended it to? Because if the state of balance currently is the result of a new philosophy that shifts focus away from coordination to mindless burst competitions, I'd rather just know now so that I don't waste any more time on this game.

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Q u o t e:
Scale back all damage

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This is the only good solution without rehauling the game. Reduce all damage by X% when attacking another player.

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Q u o t e:
Dynamics shift dramatically as players acquire more resilience gear. Specs and comps that aren't viable in straight PvE gear become much more viable when burst damage decreases. We have seen this happen for four seasons now.

We haven't made an effort to keep the dynamic from shifting, nor do we think it's a problem that the dynamic shifts. On the contrary, if you didn't notice any effect from all that gladiator gear you were acquiring, it would be much less motivational as a reward.

Likewise, if you could heal through tons of damage even without a lot of PvP gear, then what would happen with lots of PvP gear? It's likely the game would devolve into silencing or CC'ing the healer and specs that rely on doing a lot of damage would be shut out as gear improved.

As I have said in a few threads, most players agree that the strength of healing increases as the burst damage endemic to crits decreases. The only question is to what degree.

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Increased resilience might not even offset increased burst DPS from T8/T9 gear/weapons and better PvP gear.

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Q u o t e:
Players complained endlessly about being chain feared and stunlocked too. Still do. It's the reason there are so many ways to break CC in the game now. You can't pretend that crowd control was an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

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Most chain CCs in the past were avoided by not playing carelessly, to take the emphasis off of this is to promote more skill-less success. Although I suppose it's seemingly excessive currently, but that's due to how much damage is being put out right now.

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Q u o t e:
Players complained endlessly about being chain feared and stunlocked too. Still do. It's the reason there are so many ways to break CC in the game now. You can't pretend that crowd control was an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

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Call me ignorance, but what breaks stun other than the trinket and blink? Just curious.

So, let me get this straight. as a healer; I must suffer through the next couple of months with an arena rating of 1450-1550, Slowly pick up a piece of gear here and there. While all the burst dpsers get 1700-2000 ratings and have the best gear available to them. THEN the next season I MIGHT have a few pieces of season 5 gear. What about the dpsers who had enough points to purchase all of the season 5 gear AND have a surplus of 5k for the next season because of the HUGE amount of arena points they accrued from being able to two shot everything in site. You people are brilliant, obviously this logic is way beyond my comprehension because this looks like an endless loop of jerking the healers around.

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Q u o t e:
Players complained endlessly about being chain feared and stunlocked too. Still do. It's the reason there are so many ways to break CC in the game now. You can't pretend that crowd control was an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

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And nobody noticed the Obi Wan reference...pity.

Am I the only one seeing the irony of people complaining that the game was too focused around arenas and everything was being balanced for arena combat and not PvE; that PvE didn't matter because arena was Blizzards baby, followed by people now complaining that the game is too focused around PvE and everything is being balanced for PvE and not arena?