World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans

Sailyss

< Clan VXIX >

Mal'Ganis

40. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 11:54:45 AM PST

Q u o t e:

I edited your anecdote to reflect an IN GAME experience.

Q u o t e:
So they said okay and you answered Paladin out of the blue?

Satire is fun. Its my Favorite

[ Post edited by Sailyss ]

* All Minds are cooked to order

Molp

< Lazy >

Tichondrius

41. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:00:24 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Guild is waiting for me to get Heroic gear while they are in Naxx. My buddies not in Guild are all below 80.

You don't need heroics gear to do Naxx. If you have the chance to do the loot pinata that is Naxx don't waste your time with PuGs.

To echo what other people have said. AoE heals are safety wheels for bad players. They are in no way, shape or form required. But then there are a lot of bad players.

Third, they cannot balance based on perception. Perception has inertia. If they buffed a class until the perception changed, that class would end up crazy OP.

And the DPS will look up and shout "heal us!" and I will look down and whisper "no".

Millerbomb

< Dark Covenant >

Azgalor

42. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:02:23 PM PST

I haven't had this problem

Maybe you have a rep as a bad healer on your server? or maybe the people just suck and want aoe heals to save their poor dps performance and tank performance.

Sex C Time

Molp

< Lazy >

Tichondrius

43. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:04:09 PM PST

It is not just the class. I have been told that my gear was not good enough to heal H Old Kingdom, right after I came out of Naxx 25 where I topped healing meters on Patchwerk. Some people are simply not that smart.

Ironically I have done all 25 mans except Malygos and I have never been turned down for lack of gear, but it has happened more than once for heroics. I guess they are serious business.

Q u o t e:
OP, you just have to ooze confidence. Unfortunately some that play our build frankly suck at it. People complain about our lack of aoe healing, but that doesn't stop us at all. I just started running heroics, but have done fine so far in everyone I've been in. I have tank friends that beg me to heal for them because they know I'm pro.

If you're pro too, then say that to someone. If someone responds,

"Sorry, you're a pally, lack of aoe healing is not good for this heroic"

Then you reply (looked at your armory),

"I have 1700 sp, 30% crit, and 18k mana. I have healed with a paladin for 2 years, have great skill at the class, and already have T7 from Naxx. I have healed many heroics successfully before this one. Stop being a noob and invite already."

"Paladins that complain about AoE healing don't know what they're talking about. We're powerful healers and the skilled ones will blow you away. Try me, you might just be surprised"

"Skill > Class. Armory me if you like, that isn't a problem either. I'm a great healer and will show you taht very quickly. Invite, please."

or whatever else. You're speaking the truth in all of them, and you're basically telling the person to know what they're talking about.

Often, when I answer too - if someone is looking for a healer - I'll open with a whisper of, "I can go, let's blow it up. 1700 sp, 30% crit, 18k mana. Ready when you are"

Try that, you might be surprised how well it works. And frankly, if you still meet resistance after saying any one of those things to them, chances are they're too narrow minded about classes and/or are worried about their own shortcomings, so it's better to leave them alone anwyay.

And the DPS will look up and shout "heal us!" and I will look down and whisper "no".

Lel

Doomhammer

44. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:16:20 PM PST

Q u o t e:

You don't need heroics gear to do Naxx. If you have the chance to do the loot pinata that is Naxx don't waste your time with PuGs.

I lol'd.

We recently started running Naxx 10, and I have wondered why I'd go back to pug heroics. Maybe VH for the easy badges...

Taliesyn

< Taint of Madness >

Proudmoore

45. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:18:11 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Ok this is getting sick. I have been turned down 8 times now for Heroic 5 mans BECUASE I AM A PALLY.

Holy Pally now has the repetation for not being any good at 5 mans. No AOE heals means deaths.

That's funny...I never have difficulties running heroics. QQ much?

Molp

< Lazy >

Tichondrius

46. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:18:56 PM PST

Q u o t e:

I lol'd.

We recently started running Naxx 10, and I have wondered why I'd go back to pug heroics. Maybe VH for the easy badges...

The problem with badges is, what do you actually do with them? The only thing I can think of is the mount. But then the rep is nice and so are the achievements. And lets not forget the mounts from the Strath speed run.

And the DPS will look up and shout "heal us!" and I will look down and whisper "no".

Drayton

< Acies >

Sentinels

47. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:19:14 PM PST

Many players overestimate how good they actually are. Then when they get turned down for a group or fail to perform, they look for something to blame. Blaming your class & calling other people ignorant is the easy way out & often wrong. I'd suggest trying to better yourself instead. The game has changed. If you don't change as well, you'll get left behind.

Molp

< Lazy >

Tichondrius

48. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:20:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Many players overestimate how good they actually are. Then when they get turned down for a group or fail to perform, they look for something to blame. Blaming your class & calling other people ignorant is the easy way out & often wrong. I'd suggest trying to better yourself instead. The game has changed. If you don't change as well, you'll get left behind.

Kinda hard to better yourself when you don't get invited. Also, healers get more immediate feedback from mistakes (ie the healer screws up you wipe) so people who heal a lot will get decent at it, because unlike DPS they cannot stand in the fire and still get loot.

And the DPS will look up and shout "heal us!" and I will look down and whisper "no".

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

49. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 12:52:50 PM PST

My experience has been that the WoW community (in the actual game moreso than the forums) can be surprisingly conservative. I think it has to do with the game being so complex that many people can manage to understand their own class and mechanics but get overwhelmed when faced with 10 different classes (and races, and tradeskills, and gear...).

Honestly, I see a lot of pugs say relatively ignorant things. I see guildies say relatively ignorant things too. But most of them will come around over time. Players only wanted warrior tanks and priest healers for a long time until they realized there were options. Players laughed at Retadins and Boomkins even up through beta.

You also have to be a little careful of self-fulfilling prophecies. It has died down a little, but the forums used to be resplendent with "pallies need an AE heal" posts. People read that kind of stuff and it gets propagated through the net as some kind of conventional wisdom as "paladins don't have the tools they need to heal" or just "Paladins can't heal."

Pugs can be understandably lazy. They don't want to take the time to get to know you because they might not ever run with you again. I've seen druid tanks asked for their defense cap or hunters told they can't CC. I pug a lot, if only to try to make sure I share the experience of players who do it a lot. I have been really frustrated sometimes, but every once in awhile you get in a group that just clicks even if nobody knows each other and you just blast through the content .Those moments are awesome. You should get a heroic badge for it.

Paladins are fantastic healers. We are relatively happy with healer balance overall, certainly compared to dps balance, which still needs some work.

Sungamnori

< The Best Guild Ever >

Ner'zhul

52. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:02:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
My experience has been that the WoW community (in the actual game moreso than the forums) can be surprisingly conservative. I think it has to do with the game being so complex that many people can manage to understand their own class and mechanics but get overwhelmed when faced with 10 different classes (and races, and tradeskills, and gear...).

Honestly, I see a lot of pugs say relatively ignorant things. I see guildies say relatively ignorant things too. But most of them will come around over time. Players only wanted warrior tanks and priest healers for a long time until they realized there were options. Players laughed at Retadins and Boomkins even up through beta.

You also have to be a little careful of self-fulfilling prophecies. It has died down a little, but the forums used to be resplendent with "pallies need an AE heal" posts. People read that kind of stuff and it gets propagated through the net as some kind of conventional wisdom as "paladins don't have the tools they need to heal" or just "Paladins can't heal."

Pugs can be understandably lazy. They don't want to take the time to get to know you because they might not ever run with you again. I've seen druid tanks asked for their defense cap or hunters told they can't CC. I pug a lot, if only to try to make sure I share the experience of players who do it a lot. I have been really frustrated sometimes, but every once in awhile you get in a group that just clicks even if nobody knows each other and you just blast through the content .Those moments are awesome. You should get a heroic badge for it.

Paladins are fantastic healers. We are relatively happy with healer balance overall, certainly compared to dps balance, which still needs some work.

So why are you taking it out on holy paladins? Other healing classes have the tools to let groups easy mode instances, why don't paladins?

And all I gotta say to you
Wannabe, gonnabe, seal judgin', blessing buffin' prankstas
Cuz when your bubble wears off what the @#$% you gonna do
Damn it feels good to be a pally

Farmacy

< Futile >

Thrall

53. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:03:21 PM PST

Q u o t e:
My experience has been that the WoW community (in the actual game moreso than the forums) can be surprisingly conservative. I think it has to do with the game being so complex that many people can manage to understand their own class and mechanics but get overwhelmed when faced with 10 different classes (and races, and tradeskills, and gear...).

Honestly, I see a lot of pugs say relatively ignorant things. I see guildies say relatively ignorant things too. But most of them will come around over time. Players only wanted warrior tanks and priest healers for a long time until they realized there were options. Players laughed at Retadins and Boomkins even up through beta.

You also have to be a little careful of self-fulfilling prophecies. It has died down a little, but the forums used to be resplendent with "pallies need an AE heal" posts. People read that kind of stuff and it gets propagated through the net as some kind of conventional wisdom as "paladins don't have the tools they need to heal" or just "Paladins can't heal."

Pugs can be understandably lazy. They don't want to take the time to get to know you because they might not ever run with you again. I've seen druid tanks asked for their defense cap or hunters told they can't CC. I pug a lot, if only to try to make sure I share the experience of players who do it a lot. I have been really frustrated sometimes, but every once in awhile you get in a group that just clicks even if nobody knows each other and you just blast through the content .Those moments are awesome. You should get a heroic badge for it.

Paladins are fantastic healers. We are relatively happy with healer balance overall, certainly compared to dps balance, which still needs some work.

I'd go even more into the laziness factor... bad players don't manage their own damage input. There are few 5 mans the REQUIRE group healing... damage is usually avoidable.

Paladins have a harder time healing 5 mans (i think) simply because it requires that people actually pay attention to their surroundings...

Instead of R&B hooks, I do my sh*t with japenese kids.

Synel

< The Newbian Institut… >

Dark Iron

55. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:06:06 PM PST

Holy Paladins, it must be remembered, do have the not-often realized advantage of getting 50% of the drops in the game.

Healing Plate - It's everywhere you want to be!

Sometimes you get the poop, and sometimes the poop gets you.

Figgster

< Sinful Envy >

Magtheridon

56. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:06:14 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I pug a lot, if only to try to make sure I share the experience of players who do it a lot.

I knew it! Ghostcrawler was playing the toon of that guy I pugged a heroic dungeon with that one time! Identity revealed!!!

Spread the word.

Zowi

< Escaper >

Bonechewer

57. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:06:24 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Firestorm incoming.

Oh yeah, this one is gonna be ugly.

Shift Happens.

Timeny

< Covent of Destructio… >

Destromath

58. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:09:12 PM PST

Q u o t e:
My experience has been that the WoW community (in the actual game moreso than the forums) can be surprisingly conservative. I think it has to do with the game being so complex that many people can manage to understand their own class and mechanics but get overwhelmed when faced with 10 different classes (and races, and tradeskills, and gear...).

Honestly, I see a lot of pugs say relatively ignorant things. I see guildies say relatively ignorant things too. But most of them will come around over time. Players only wanted warrior tanks and priest healers for a long time until they realized there were options. Players laughed at Retadins and Boomkins even up through beta.

You also have to be a little careful of self-fulfilling prophecies. It has died down a little, but the forums used to be resplendent with "pallies need an AE heal" posts. People read that kind of stuff and it gets propagated through the net as some kind of conventional wisdom as "paladins don't have the tools they need to heal" or just "Paladins can't heal."

Pugs can be understandably lazy. They don't want to take the time to get to know you because they might not ever run with you again. I've seen druid tanks asked for their defense cap or hunters told they can't CC. I pug a lot, if only to try to make sure I share the experience of players who do it a lot. I have been really frustrated sometimes, but every once in awhile you get in a group that just clicks even if nobody knows each other and you just blast through the content .Those moments are awesome. You should get a heroic badge for it.

Paladins are fantastic healers. We are relatively happy with healer balance overall, certainly compared to dps balance, which still needs some work.

GC, I'm a bit biased obviously, but I too think Paladins are fantastic healers. The thing is though, our limitations in healing against many encounters are unique amongst the healing classes. We're not imagining this, it's not all "perception", we can't puff up our chests and egotistically declare, "No, I CAN heal through that AoE boss as well as other healing classes!" and have the rest of the WoW community believe it. It's simply not true.

We are limited by design in a way that is pretty clear cut. There is no denying that having a paladin healer in a 5 man means the group as a whole will need to be more conservative and closer to perfect execution in heroics. It is human nature to take the path of least resistance, and that path is AWAY from holy paladins for heroics.

I'm not saying the solution needs to be an AoE heal, but I believe we need some more work to be done on our class/spec in order to bring us closer to having an equal chance at success as healers in content that includes AoE damage, which is a pretty pervasive aspect of the game.

Errant

< Rising Storm >

Lightbringer

59. Re: Holy Pally turned down for 5 mans 12/10/2008 01:11:08 PM PST

For the longest time people only wanted pallies as healers too, not as ret or prot. So if this community is conservative, pallies must be seriously broken to make everyone do a complete 180.

This sig is fleeting human contact
Both of us lost,
but for a moment
we're lost together.
I wonder who you are. -xkcd

Forum > CLASS ROLES > HEALING