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  • 0. CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 09:58:20 AM PST
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I have to say that I am exceptionally disappointed by the lack of attention that GC payed to the healing community on this matter. When a 6 sec CD was proposed, the community responded and the vast majority suggested something OTHER than a CD.. and those that wanted the CD were not priests.

We all know that CoH and WG need a nerf, but we all discussed changes that would make sense for weeks and it seems those discussions were all wasted.

So my question is this:

GC, will the CD be the 6 second CD you originally proposed?

And if so…

Why were we not heard on this matter?

I give this thread as a reference although there are many:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12454546730&sid=1&pageNo=1


btw: My priest is still 70 because I chose, like so many other raiding healers, to play a tank in LK.

Like if zombie day came, I would go to his house while fleeing to see if he was a zombie or not.
If he was I would kill him and if he wasn't I would feed him to a zombie --- Spargas
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  • Emerald Dream
  • 1. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:16:02 AM PST
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As of yet, we've heard nothing to the contrary of the proposed 6-second cooldown.

And I'm quite sure we were heard on this matter, as GC probably responded at least 10 times directly concerning the COH/WG debates.

This ain't a bump; it's a goddamn arms race.
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  • Emerald Dream
  • 2. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:19:40 AM PST
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Meh - they will go with the 6 second cooldown because it will be easiest thing for the developers to implement. During Beta I believe it was 6 seconds for a short period and then rolled back. So the code is in place and ready to go.

Edit: I would think that this would be a parameter they could tweak.

[ Post edited by Tyena ]


"Holy Priests are gap fillers" Ghostcrawler
"YES! I've always wanted to be spackle or grout" Jood
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  • 3. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:20:07 AM PST
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Q u o t e:
I have to say that I am exceptionally disappointed by the lack of attention that GC payed to the healing community on this matter. When a 6 sec CD was proposed, the community responded and the vast majority suggested something OTHER than a CD.. and those that wanted the CD were not priests.

We all know that CoH and WG need a nerf, but we all discussed changes that would make sense for weeks and it seems those discussions were all wasted.

So my question is this:

GC, will the CD be the 6 second CD you originally proposed?

And if so…

Why were we not heard on this matter?

I give this thread as a reference although there are many:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12454546730&sid=1&pageNo=1


btw: My priest is still 70 because I chose, like so many other raiding healers, to play a tank in LK.



try searching more

theres only a bajillion topics on this subject

its not even on the PTR

and of course priests wouldnt agree to the nerf... who would want their own class nerfed

I love healing
I can heal undergeared tanks
I can heal DPS that pulls aggro
I can't heal stupid, get out of the AoE Nub
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  • Lightbringer
  • 4. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:21:10 AM PST
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GC has repeated many times over that he's been reading everything in here. If you think he hasn't been paying attention to the matter, I suggest you look over the compilation of his posts on the subject that is stickied at the top of the forums.

Potmaster Koll - 0/14/57 - Alchemy 420 [Potion]
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  • Emerald Dream
  • 5. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:21:38 AM PST
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Q u o t e:
Meh - they will go with the 6 second cooldown because it will be easiest thing for the developers to implement. During Beta I believe it was 6 seconds for a short period and then rolled back. So the code is in place and ready to go.

Edit: I would think that this would be a parameter they could tweak.
I very, very highly doubt that they're hesitant to change the cooldown to something other than 6 seconds because of coding difficulty.

This ain't a bump; it's a goddamn arms race.
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  • 6. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:22:00 AM PST
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The 6 second CD makes it so that priest AoE healing throughput is about equal to shamans, rather than 3x shamans' healing throughput.
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  • 7. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:26:08 AM PST
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Holy shock and Riptide are also instant cast, but aren't smart and only heal a single target, and they have 6 second cooldowns.

I'd take CoH over Holy Shock in an instant, even with a 6 second cooldown.
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  • 8. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:28:38 AM PST
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Q u o t e:
The 6 second CD makes it so that priest AoE healing throughput is about equal to shamans, rather than 3x shamans' healing throughput.


Also allows them, and us, to actually be able to land heals with cast times as effective healing between CoH cooldowns, rather than starting our cast and seeing our target pulse up to full health before even our fastest casts can finish.

Just means the healing will be distributed more instead of monopolized by CoH.

Also the reduction of overheal sniping allows beacon to be more effective in 25 mans where it is currently a liability due to smart heals.
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  • 9. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:44:43 AM PST
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Q u o t e:


try searching more

theres only a bajillion topics on this subject

its not even on the PTR

and of course priests wouldnt agree to the nerf... who would want their own class nerfed


I do in fact read them and track what GC says on the topic...


Here is his latest post on it:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13275671464&pageNo=1&sid=1#4


Q u o t e:
We explored several options to nerf CoH and WG and eventually settled on a cooldown


I am simply asking what the CD is and (if it is 6 sec) why it has not changed from the original given the amount of feedback.

btw: You are wrong, I know that CoH needs a nerf.

As far as the throughput comment.... do the math yourself, a 6 sec CD will not make it equal to CH.

Like if zombie day came, I would go to his house while fleeing to see if he was a zombie or not.
If he was I would kill him and if he wasn't I would feed him to a zombie --- Spargas
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  • Lightbringer
  • 10. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:46:56 AM PST
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Q u o t e:

As far as the throughput comment.... do the math yourself, a 6 sec CD will not make it equal to CH.



Tip : CoH 6s cooldown is not a 6s silence, do factor your other spells in.

Potmaster Koll - 0/14/57 - Alchemy 420 [Potion]
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  • 11. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:50:22 AM PST
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Q u o t e:


Tip : CoH 6s cooldown is not a 6s silence, do factor your other spells in.


Should I factor in the mana cost too?


edit: the point of this post was not to argue the same tired thing of "if CoH needs a nerf" ... it does, we all know it does. The point of this post was to understand if.. and why... all these discussions didn't factor into the final solution.

[ Post edited by Notyourmom ]


Like if zombie day came, I would go to his house while fleeing to see if he was a zombie or not.
If he was I would kill him and if he wasn't I would feed him to a zombie --- Spargas
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  • 12. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 10:55:05 AM PST
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Q u o t e:


I do in fact read them and track what GC says on the topic...


Here is his latest post on it:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13275671464&pageNo=1&sid=1#4



I am simply asking what the CD is and (if it is 6 sec) why it has not changed from the original given the amount of feedback.

btw: You are wrong, I know that CoH needs a nerf.

As far as the throughput comment.... do the math yourself, a 6 sec CD will not make it equal to CH.



I personally never said that it should be equal to CH
plus its really our only raid healing option
priests have so many healing spells many of which they dont even use both because of how good CoH is and how bad the others are... i really hope they buff some of your other spells to compensate

I love healing
I can heal undergeared tanks
I can heal DPS that pulls aggro
I can't heal stupid, get out of the AoE Nub
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  • Vek'nilash
  • 13. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:20:23 PM PST
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Q u o t e:

I personally never said that it should be equal to CH
plus its really our only raid healing option
priests have so many healing spells many of which they dont even use both because of how good CoH is and how bad the others are... i really hope they buff some of your other spells to compensate


CoH is our only raid healing option as well. It is our only multi-target heal that can be used on a raid. The ones we don't use generally aren't viable for raid healing by design (PoH, Holy Nova, Lightwell, etc.).
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Ghostcrawler
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  • 14. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:35:16 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
I am simply asking what the CD is and (if it is 6 sec) why it has not changed from the original given the amount of feedback.


I honestly didn't get that from the original post. It sounded more like someone who disagreed with our logic and wanted a chance to argue or vent some more. But I'll take you at your word. :)

I also suspect that even if the answer satisfies you that it won't satisfy many other folks, and we'll see this thread at 15 pages soon with the same arguments and misguided claims of shaman favoritism that we've gone through for several rounds now. Alas.

But to answer your questions, we are going with a 6 second cooldown for now. I have offered in other threads why we don't like many of the alternative solutions that were suggested. You have to remember that when we come up with a change it has already gone through many days (or weeks) of debate. While we do change our minds sometimes when the community makes a good point, we also have thought about the issue an awful lot before it ever even gets announced.

Players rarely if ever agree with nerfs to their class (though it does happen). There is always a vocal and impassioned outcry. Most of these have happened in the damage dealing forum (and the beta forums before that) because honestly we haven't had to nerf healers much.

The changes will be available on the PTR so you can try them out and give us more feedback before they go live.

Try and remember that we make each and every nerf for the good of the game. I think player sometimes lose sight of that.
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  • 15. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:36:25 PM PST
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Q u o t e:


CoH is our only raid healing option as well. It is our only multi-target heal that can be used on a raid. The ones we don't use generally aren't viable for raid healing by design (PoH, Holy Nova, Lightwell, etc.).



let me rephrase that

its our only multitarget heal

and the reason the other multi target heals you have arent raid viable is because blizz gave you the uber raid heal... the other heals need tweaks imo but at least you have options

I love healing
I can heal undergeared tanks
I can heal DPS that pulls aggro
I can't heal stupid, get out of the AoE Nub
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  • Moon Guard
  • 16. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:37:04 PM PST
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Any plans on changing Prayer of healing? Making it castable on another party for one?
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  • 17. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:40:18 PM PST
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Q u o t e:

I honestly didn't get that from the original post. It sounded more like someone who disagreed with our logic and wanted a chance to argue or vent some more. But I'll take you at your word. :)

I also suspect that even if the answer satisfies you that it won't satisfy many other folks, and we'll see this thread at 15 pages soon with the same arguments and misguided claims of shaman favoritism that we've gone through for several rounds now. Alas.

But to answer your questions, we are going with a 6 second cooldown for now. I have offered in other threads why we don't like many of the alternative solutions that were suggested. You have to remember that when we come up with a change it has already gone through many days (or weeks) of debate. While we do change our minds sometimes when the community makes a good point, we also have thought about the issue an awful lot before it ever even gets announced.

Players rarely if ever agree with nerfs to their class (though it does happen). There is always a vocal and impassioned outcry. Most of these have happened in the damage dealing forum (and the beta forums before that) because honestly we haven't had to nerf healers much.

The changes will be available on the PTR so you can try them out and give us more feedback before they go live.

Try and remember that we make each and every nerf for the good of the game. I think player sometimes lose sight of that.


Would you please repeat or share the logic behind the 6 second change? I myself am one of the priests that considers this too much of a nerf, but I'd like to know why you decided to go with it.
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  • Lightning's Blade
  • 18. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:41:27 PM PST
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Q u o t e:


I honestly didn't get that from the original post. It sounded more like someone who disagreed with our logic and wanted a chance to argue or vent some more. But I'll take you at your word. :)

I also suspect that even if the answer satisfies you that it won't satisfy many other folks, and we'll see this thread at 15 pages soon with the same arguments and misguided claims of shaman favoritism that we've gone through for several rounds now. Alas.

But to answer your questions, we are going with a 6 second cooldown for now. I have offered in other threads why we don't like many of the alternative solutions that were suggested. You have to remember that when we come up with a change it has already gone through many days (or weeks) of debate. While we do change our minds sometimes when the community makes a good point, we also have thought about the issue an awful lot before it ever even gets announced.

Players rarely if ever agree with nerfs to their class (though it does happen). There is always a vocal and impassioned outcry. Most of these have happened in the damage dealing forum (and the beta forums before that) because honestly we haven't had to nerf healers much.

The changes will be available on the PTR so you can try them out and give us more feedback before they go live.

Try and remember that we make each and every nerf for the good of the game. I think player sometimes lose sight of that.



Why does nerfing circle of healing take precedence over fixing things like mind flay, rapture, etc? Why does it take precedence over balancing our terrible "hymns?" I hear so much talk about nerfing a class that really doesn't have a whole lot going for it in the first place. I hope this next patch is at least bittersweet, GC.

Edit: I'm also hoping to see some changes to disc that make into the Holy Paladin caliber healer you said it was going to be.

[ Post edited by Priist ]

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  • 19. Re: CoH CD - What will it be and why?   12/10/2008 12:41:43 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
Any plans on changing Prayer of healing? Making it castable on another party for one?


I would dig that, doesn't even need to be 'smart'
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