I thought the goal of "getting rid" of FAP and putting it on every weapon was so druids had more options and hunters could use former FAP staffs as stat sticks, however with armor still on a few of them, it wastes itemization points and are no good for hunters. Now i would be fine with this if they would have kept the STR on the armor staffs instead of converting it to flat AP like they did all the other staffs, but it doesnt make any sense since only feral druids are going to want these staffs, and str is a bit better for us than flat AP.

It doesn't instantly turn armor into an abysmal stat.

Druid staves already have virtually every other stat druid tanks want on them, adding another stat is a good thing from an item synergy standpoint.

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Q u o t e:
Armor is still a good stat for bears. It's just not an insanely good stat that trumps all others.

Some staves have armor and some do not. Those with armor won't be as attractive to hunters but it depends on what they are upgrading from.

We don't expect there to be 100% overlap in which weapons hunters and druids (and possibly even warriors) want. But there will be more overlap than there is now.

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Thanks GC

I didn't find any amazing maces for me. Are we getting new choices or are the staves all we get?

The high-level two-hand maces are going to be pretty good -- in fact, at least at the ilevel 213, the two-hand maces are superior for DPS compared to the feral staves.

As of the patch, the best DPS weapon short of Journey's End (ilevel 226) will be Inevitable Defeat.

Do hunters really need to be given more reasons to roll on druid tanking gear?

just an idea but what if you kept feral attack power and armor on staffs but have it affect druid forms and directly affect hunter pets?

edited for stupidity

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Q u o t e:
Armor is still a good stat for bears. It's just not an insanely good stat that trumps all others.

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What stat will armor not trump after this change?

Mitigation > All

In the absence of any other mitigation stat, armor will always trump. Nerf the multiplier? Still trumps. Nerf green armor? Still trumps, Nerf secondary items, it'll trump even more because, multiplier or no, secondary items are the only source of extra armor left.

Trying to make a tanking class want armor less is like trying to make a healer want less mana or +heal, it makes no sense. Which is why I pray to whatever powers there may be that this isn't the unabashed exercise in utter idiocy it would appear and instead it is being done for some other reason that, for whatever reason (I'm betting the words "high health 'tanks'" are involved, but who knows), remains unstated.

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Q u o t e:
Armor is still a good stat for bears. It's just not an insanely good stat that trumps all others.

Some staves have armor and some do not. Those with armor won't be as attractive to hunters but it depends on what they are upgrading from.

We don't expect there to be 100% overlap in which weapons hunters and druids (and possibly even warriors) want. But there will be more overlap than there is now.

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Will there be any re-balancing of stat points now that AC isn't nearly as desireable for a Feral as it once was? Or was this never a consideration?

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Q u o t e:
Armor is still a good stat for bears. It's just not an insanely good stat that trumps all others.

Some staves have armor and some do not. Those with armor won't be as attractive to hunters but it depends on what they are upgrading from.

We don't expect there to be 100% overlap in which weapons hunters and druids (and possibly even warriors) want. But there will be more overlap than there is now.

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My concern is the limited weapon selection we as Druids have. Currently, feral druids are forced to use either staffs or maces. So what's going to end up happening is one of these staffs are going to drop, another class is going to want it, and (at least using my guild's system) is going to blow their DKP on it. So just as tanking druids have to wait for certain rings/necks/trinkets to drop currently (and yes I realize as of the patch that will change), now feral dps is going to have to do the same thing with regards to weapons.

Personally, I've cleared naxx a total of 4 times already, and haven't seen a single staff drop (2x 10 man, 2 x25 man). Now, all 3 hunters in the guild have already said they're going to bid on Journey's End when it drops. Now I have competition, but I'm still very very limited on the number of weapons in the game for my class.

I like the change, but now I dislike the current itemization for the high end content with regards to druid weapons. It's one thing to want a staff that is rare and be the only class that can use it versus wanting a rare staff and having to compete with at least one other class. (which is actually a lower % because most raids carry 1 feral and 2-3 hunters)

GC, any consideration to allow DK to use staves now? I know it won't exactly go with the whole basis of what you've created-- the "image" of death knights (heck, i'd laugh if I saw one running at me with a big totem pole strapped to his back), but some of these are absolutely killer. 72 agility 150 stamina, 200ap and 59 expertise? yes please.



If there's anyway you could make it happen, please for the love of god. It makes me jealous that warriors and hunters have access to such fantastic pieces and all I can do is stare and wish.

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Q u o t e:
Armor is still a good stat for bears. It's just not an insanely good stat that trumps all others.

Some staves have armor and some do not. Those with armor won't be as attractive to hunters but it depends on what they are upgrading from.

We don't expect there to be 100% overlap in which weapons hunters and druids (and possibly even warriors) want. But there will be more overlap than there is now.

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I thought the reason for getting rid of FAP in part was to give druids more choice and get rid of more "one class only" items out of drop tables?

If you keep armor on them, they are still one class only, and 2h DPS have to deal with druids rolling on their weapons as well.

Ghost I know it's been mentioned before, but just keep in mind the idea of polearms for Druids ^_^

The problem with 2h maces, or at least the few I've seen, is that they lack a feral's favorite stat: Agility. Sure the DPS may be nice, but I'm not gonna pick up a mace over my staff with agility.

I get the idea of more options for more classes, but then why not make every single spell-power item a dagger and then let paladins use daggers? You don't see that. You see spell-swords, usable by mages and locks only, and so you itemize them for mages and locks. You don't have to change itemization since no priest is gonna use one.

Also, why the ridiculous amount of feral staves in current raid content? Unnecessary. They're also "basically" the same, with one minor difference (be it expertise, armor, crit, what have you). Drop the billion other feral staves, simplify the list, and fill the gaps with more appropriate weaponry, such as one-handed maces or axes (of which there aren't any).

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Q u o t e:
I didn't find any amazing maces for me. Are we getting new choices or are the staves all we get?

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That goes against Blizzard's item designs. Items cannot get worse for non-feral druids and get better for feral druids. Instead, all gear changes must be for the benefit of other classes.

-Leather gear: Change rogues to get 2 AP for 1 Str, then have leather gear give Str? No, that would unnecessarily burden rogues with a change that helps ferals. Just don't put any Strength, as well as other stats like Int on PvP gear or bonus Armor on bear gear, to nerf gear for ferals and improve them for rogues.

-Weapons: Change 2h Maces to be better for ferals and a bit weaker for others (although, they will be better for tanking DKs)? No way! Just nerf the only gear that is good for Ferals to make them more appealing to hunters, but still be the only decent weapons for ferals.

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Q u o t e:


What stat will armor not trump after this change?

Mitigation > All

In the absence of any other mitigation stat, armor will always trump. Nerf the multiplier? Still trumps. Nerf green armor? Still trumps, Nerf secondary items, it'll trump even more because, multiplier or no, secondary items are the only source of extra armor left.

Trying to make a tanking class want armor less is like trying to make a healer want less mana or +heal, it makes no sense. Which is why I pray to whatever powers there may be that this isn't the unabashed exercise in utter idiocy it would appear and instead it is being done for some other reason that, for whatever reason (I'm betting the words "high health 'tanks'" are involved, but who knows), remains unstated.

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As true as this is, there's one key point you're missing here:

Armor is important enough as it is. Subjecting it to the Bear multiplier meant that you had to get armor at the expense of everything else. ilevel 213 caster leather? Take it because you're wearing an ilevel 200 blue just for the armor. Badge of Tenacity from Ogri'la? Go back for it just for the armor. Keystone Great Ring? Run Drak'tharon Keep however many times you need to, JUST FOR THE ARMOR.

Armor is good, armor is nice, armor trumps everything else because it's a mitigation stat. That doesn't mean encouraging its use over everything else is healthy for the game or for the class.

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Q u o t e:


As true as this is, there's one key point you're missing here:

Armor is important enough as it is. Subjecting it to the Bear multiplier meant that you had to get armor at the expense of everything else. ilevel 213 caster leather? Take it because you're wearing an ilevel 200 blue just for the armor.

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You do realize that the changes make THIS far more likely, since base armor from leather has become even stronger, don't you?

How about turning the staves into 2h Maces, keeping the Str and BAM! good for DKs and other 2h meleers without reducing the effectiveness for druids!

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Q u o t e:
How about turning the staves into 2h Maces, keeping the Str and BAM! good for DKs and other 2h meleers without reducing the effectiveness for druids!

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annnnnnd screwing the hunters that this change would effect as well. im all for screwing hunters over since they roll on everything, have the highest DPS, and are generally played by retards, but that seems counter productive.