World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Mage changes

Atherakhia

< Vigil >

Mal'Ganis

60. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:16:35 AM PST

Q u o t e:

This statement has me worried GC. Need I remind you that mages were nearly completely useless for an entire expansion, and now that we're doing good damage on stationary fights we still have the issues we've had before on mobile fights. Just because we do well on one particular fight (eg patchwerk) doesn't mean we do that well on other fights, in fact, warlocks and hunters can easily beat us depending on the type of encounter. Hell, HYBRIDS are doing 5k dps now and you seem concerned with nerfing pure dps classes while its okay for enhance shaman to do over 5k dps. That doesn't make much sense to me.

These knee jerk pve nerf reactions really need to stop, I for one think that hunters were fine for pve. For the love of god, the hunter nerfs were not needed and these knee jerk pve damage nerfs in general are NOT needed.

This is the second time I've seen this type of response and it's the second time I've seen no mention of these highly mobile fights where you'd be at an obvious disadvantage over another class. The only one that I can really think of off the top of my head is Heigen because you 'may' not be able to get a 3 second cast off between splashes.

But you really need to not bring Warlocks into it because you really don't understand how Warlock DPS works and how mobility is just as large a problem for them as it is for you. Remember, 30-40% of our damage, regardless of what spec we use, at a minimum, will be coming from a direct damage nuke with a long cast time.

Wynja

< Udder Perfection >

Zul'jin

61. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:18:02 AM PST

Q u o t e:

3) Arcane Blast – overhauled. Will now increase the damage of your next Arcane spell by 30%. However using Arcane Blast itself does not consume the charge, but instead increases the mana of your next Arcane Blast, up to a maximum of 3 stacks. You can alternate Blast and Barrage to keep buffing Barrage, or you can build Blast up higher for a heavy mana cost.

Wait, does this mean if you that at 3 stacks AB will be doing 90% more damage for 600% mana cost?

Q u o t e:

4) Torment the Weak – now works with Arcane Blast and does bonus damage to targets afflicted by any kind of slowing effect (e.g. Thunder Clap).

So TotW has been broken with AB. No wonder I was doing about the same damage with arcane with or without TotW.

[ Post edited by Wynja ]

Caydus

< SoldOut >

Black Dragonflight

62. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:18:38 AM PST

I love the changes

only thing i would like to know
since elemental precision would effect all spells..
would frostfire bolt still get the 6% hit or would it go down to 3%?

Failadinlawl

< ERP ALERT >

Executus

63. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:18:48 AM PST

This is fine as long as all other classes get some nice buffs pretty soon here. Particularly the ones that really need to be addressed.

....If not, then awesome. Because this really seems high on the priority list of things that needed to be changed.

Characters I play:
Feerturdzdot - 72 Human Warlock - Kalecgos
Failadinlawl - 70 Blood Elf Paladin - Executus

Bellamekare

Twisting Nether

64. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:19:04 AM PST

LET THE FAPPING COMMMENCE!

~AFK from work, slow falling to BS~

Annelynn

< Softcore >

Crushridge

65. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:19:10 AM PST

Q u o t e:
*ABarr will hit too hard. It already hits too hard.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are right here. Blast debuff + Arcane Power + Torment the Weak is going to make ABarr hit like a semi. It will have to be toned down for this to go live.

Kayren

< Free Agents >

Scarlet Crusade

66. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:19:44 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Or "Spirit removed from mage tier sets because we realized that it having a small benefit for only one stat and yet being on a lot of gear in the game was silly."

Or Spirit being replaced by agility! Then we could at least dodge. It'd benefit us more than spirit.

(Yes I know arcane mages can benefit some from spirit. Prot warriors benefit from defense -- but that doesn't mean DPS warriors are forced to have +defense on their gear. Yet both benefit from strength and, appropriately, it's on both sets of gear.)

If Mages had a Fire/Frost Set and an Arcane Set, I'd agree. However, Mages only have 1 tier set and so they need to work it for all 3 specs.

Collector of Rare and Exotic Artifacts, Sets and Oddities. Kayren, The Seeker.

Dmg

< Social Distortion >

Velen

67. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:20:28 AM PST

GC you are turning into a right hypocrite. On one side your developmental team nerfs BM DPS without any decent compensation to either marksmen or survival. You wreck warlock's PVP viability. Instead your focus is on constantly increasing mages. Not bad enough their damn DPS is close to BM.... no signs of checking that "we are keeping a watch" , not bad enough that frost gives acute control over virtually all classes... Now you go give them further changes in arcane and even better mana regen.

Where does this hyprocisy and pandering to one class with an overinflated sense of entitlement stop? Where are the " Over-reaching PVP fixes for hunters". Where is your simplification of afflock DPS. Where are the promised PVP viability increases for warlocks? Where is the part where you fix the SE bug that afflocks are plagued with?

Phizz

Emerald Dream

68. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:20:48 AM PST

Q u o t e:
You're about to be quoted by a bunch of terrible arcane mages clinging to their overpowered ABarr saying that I'm biased towards frost, even though I've played Arcane for longer and to a higher rating than anyone here...

I'll make my concerns about these changes GC friendly:

*Frostfire Bolt PvE spec mages now have to choose between Torment the Weak and Elemental Precision for a good build. I don't think that's a good thing, if you do, oh well. Drop elemental precision to T1.

*2 minute evocate is neat, and honestly seems like a more PvP oriented change. Why not add this effect on to a T1-T3 talent (maybe the 150% intellect -> armor talent which nobody takes for PvP or PvE?) so other specs can grab it?

*ABarr will hit too hard. It already hits too hard.

Frostfire spec doesn't have enough points in it to get both Torment the Weak and Ice Shards.

Emhster

< Flawless Victory >

Blackwing Lair

69. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:21:24 AM PST

I have few questions:

Q u o t e:
3) Arcane Blast – overhauled. Will now increase the damage of your next Arcane spell by 30%. However using Arcane Blast itself does not consume the charge, but instead increases the mana of your next Arcane Blast, up to a maximum of 3 stacks. You can alternate Blast and Barrage to keep buffing Barrage, or you can build Blast up higher for a heavy mana cost.

So Arcane Blast remains the same, except it places a 30% damage buff on the next arcane spell (excluding AB).... Or is the debuff being replaced by a stackable charge (30% dmg bonus + AB cost) that any arcane spell will consume?

Q u o t e:
4) Torment the Weak – now works with Arcane Blast and does bonus damage to targets afflicted by any kind of slowing effect (e.g. Thunder Clap).

Will that work on bosses or mobs immune to any kind of slowing effect? Currently it does only work if the debuff 'Slow' is applied on those type of mobs, which the reason why TotW is ignored by raiders.

It should work if any kind of debuffs supposed to 'ensnare' the target is applied, regardless its immunity to make it viable in raids.

Q u o t e:
5) Elemental Precision – renamed Precision and now works on all spells.

Will that stack with Arcane Focus?

Q u o t e:
6) Improved Blizzard – snaring effect reduced to 20/40/50%

:( Ahh well

Affix

Arena Tournament 1

70. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:21:28 AM PST

Q u o t e:
2. If Barrage is to be nerfed (as it should be) in damage to compensate for the increased multiplier, could Blast be shortened to a 2 second cast? Adjust its base-damage and spellpower coefficient accordingly of course. 2.5 seconds in PvP without the advantages of Frost doesn't bode well.

This is a really good idea.

Affix of Tichondrius, <Quality Control>
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tichondrius&n=Affix

Pyrotechnics

Bronzebeard

71. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:21:37 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Because they could end up buffing Arcane in PvP, we are prepared to adjust the damage of say Arcane Barrage if needed, but we want to see these in action on the PTR first.

I really, really, REALLY don't like the idea of nerfing Arcane Barrage because another spell makes it over-the-top in PvP.

It's a spell that's been sorely needed for years in PvP, and it would be a shame for it to go from important to useless (we really have nothing else that does substantial damage that you can use freely on the run) because of tinkering with the Blast.

Werebeef

< Elitist Jerks >

Mal'Ganis

72. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:24:40 AM PST

Q u o t e:
I'm also a bit confused with the new Blast mechanic. Does this mean Blast only gives a single debuff instead of stacking? How much higher is the mana cost?

A few requests though:

1. Though TotW seems more useful now, it would seem that this would require a warrior, warlock to cast a slowing curse, or slow. I know it's only one spec of one class's dps but 12% damage when relying on another class seems awkward. What would you think of having Arcane Blast refresh Slow?

Every tank has an ability or talent that reduces the attack speed of the target by 20%

So basically you get 12% extra damage on things that are tanked, in addition to non bosses snared by frostbolt, hamstring or whatever

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

73. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:24:41 AM PST

Q u o t e:
can we get a little clarity on arcane last. does this mean only the first blast causes dmg to up 30 percent, and so the next 2 casts only increase the mana cost, ie its only worth it to cast it the first time?

I'll try to explain this better. It sounds more confusing than it is. Here is the tooltip:

Blasts the target with energy, dealing X Arcane damage. Each time you cast Arcane Blast, the damage of all Arcane spells is increased by 15% and mana cost of Arcane Blast is increased by 200%. Effect stacks up to 3 times and lasts 10 sec or until any Arcane damage spell except Arcane Blast is cast.

Consider a few scenarios:

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Barrage
Next Arcane Barrage is 15% more damage.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Missiles
Each missile in the next volley is 15% more damage.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
The second Blast does 15% more damage, but costs 3x normal cost.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
The third Blast does 30% more damage, but costs 5x normal cost.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
The fourth Blast does 45% more damage, but costs 7x normal cost.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
Any Blast beyond the fourth is still at 45% more damage, and still costs 7x. I wouldn't do this. :)

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Barrage
The Barrage is 45% more damage, but at the normal cost and consumes the charge so you are back to normal damage after that.

Phizz

Emerald Dream

74. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:25:19 AM PST

I will say that PoM-ing arcane blast in conjunction with Arcane Barrage will likely be wack.

This will probably see a good deal of iteration on the PTR.

Adventureguy

< SALMON >

Tortheldrin

75. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:25:27 AM PST

Q u o t e:
I'll try to explain this better. It sounds more confusing than it is. Here is the tooltip:

Blasts the target with energy, dealing X Arcane damage. Each time you cast Arcane Blast, the damage of all Arcane spells is increased by 15% and mana cost of Arcane Blast is increased by 200%. Effect stacks up to 3 times and lasts 10 sec or until any Arcane damage spell except Arcane Blast is cast.

Consider a few scenarios:

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Barrage
Next Arcane Barrage is 15% more damage.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Missiles
Each missile in the next volley is 15% more damage.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
The second Blast does 15% more damage, but costs 3x normal cost.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
The third Blast does 30% more damage, but costs 5x normal cost.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
The fourth Blast does 45% more damage, but costs 7x normal cost.

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast
Any Blast beyond the fourth is still at 45% more damage, and still costs 7x. I wouldn't do this. :)

Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Blast -> Arcane Barrage
The Barrage is 45% more damage, but at the normal cost and consumes the charge so you are back to normal damage after that.

Much clearer, ty

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

77. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:26:49 AM PST

Q u o t e:
I was on vent with Venruki last week while he did arenas. He was critting arcane barrages for 7k+, and then POM-pyroing for over 10k. This will significantly increase arcane power's burst potential, which was already unhealable and could not be mitigated.

The change is good for PvE, but jesus christ adjust it so that Arcane Barrage does significantly lower base damage, and increase the 30% blast bonus to be much higher. We don't need a PTR to tell us that ABarr's damage is already too high.

Affix, as I mentioned we'll have to keep a close eye on Arcane Barrage. We didn't think Arcane's dps would be competitive with Frostfire if we nerfed Arcane Barrage. It may be challenging in PvP to get the stacks up high enough (the buff can be dispelled). The risk that IF the mage gets enough stacks, then there is a BIG BIG BIG Arcane Barrage coming. Totally valid concern.

Euphoric

< Zero Tolerance >

Blackwater Raiders

78. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:27:32 AM PST

Q u o t e:

This statement has me worried GC. Need I remind you that mages were nearly completely useless for an entire expansion, and now that we're doing good damage on stationary fights we still have the issues we've had before on mobile fights. Just because we do well on one particular fight (eg patchwerk) doesn't mean we do that well on other fights, in fact, warlocks and hunters can easily beat us depending on the type of encounter. Hell, HYBRIDS are doing 5k dps now and you seem concerned with nerfing pure dps classes while its okay for enhance shaman to do over 5k dps. That doesn't make much sense to me.

These knee jerk pve nerf reactions really need to stop, I for one think that hunters were fine for pve. For the love of god, the hunter nerfs were not needed and these knee jerk pve damage nerfs in general are NOT needed.

First off, what nerfs? These are all arcane mage PVE buffs.

Secondly, what knee jerk reaction? They want to TEST these changes on the Public Test Realm. These aren't final. Nor are they going live right now. More than likely they will tweak these changes before they go live.

Stupid work it always gets in the way of the important things...

Especially not work.

Dmg

< Social Distortion >

Velen

79. Re: Upcoming Mage changes 12/10/2008 10:29:38 AM PST

Q u o t e:

First off, what nerfs? These are all arcane mage PVE buffs.

Secondly, what knee jerk reaction? They want to TEST these changes on the Public Test Realm. These aren't final. Nor are they going live right now. More than likely they will tweak these changes before they go live.

I sincerely doubt it.

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