Only needing 1 button to do 2500+ single-target dps while tanking with a 35000+ health pool and 30000+ armor isn't fun?

What the hell is your definition of "fun" then?!?

---

Q u o t e:
to the op,

use your shout ability to get snap aggro before swiping. change targets and maul rotate all of them and get lacerate etc up. if you are trying to tank w/just swipe its going to be hard. its decent for aoe aggro but you need to mix in other things too, its not a 1 button wonder.

---

to the Nephalem ,

Please stop giving the op bad tanking advice. I'm glad you enjoy DnD though.

---

Q u o t e:
The feedback is so disjointed because depending on the particular situation swipe fails us in all of those ways but not always at the same time, hence passionate posts going on about each of these problems.

---

Exactly. I know GC doesn't like it when people try to use these threads as proof that Something Must Be Done...but really, Something Must Be Done. Swipe, in its current form, is broken.

Neph,

Sorry but any heal aggro seems to crawl right over demo roar. It's not bad for initial pulls, however it's pretty rotten for any "gauntlet".

Dkp,

I don't play bear to DPS, I play bear to tank, and swipe is meant for AOE tanking, where it suffers greatly in comparison to the other 3 tanking classes. This is what makes it "not fun".

Hell just removing the target requirement on it would do wonders, and I can't really see how such a removal would make the ability overpowered in much of any situation.

---

Q u o t e:



Sometimes when a pack runs toward the group, Swipe will miss the one in front / the one behind, which we'll have to pick up some other way (FFF, Charge, Taunt), during which time the DPS are likely to steal aggro on the mobs we already Swiped.

So in a way, it doesn't generate enough burst threat.

---

Yes, yes, and more yes.

---

Q u o t e:


I think *I* need to be able to do more than just Swipe spamming in order to be an effective tank. Demo Roar, Barkskin, Lacerate are abilities that I can't really use in multi-tanking scenarios because if I do, I risk losing my very fragile Swipe threat.

That, in turn, causes me to take more damage than I should because I can't keep Demo Roar / Barkskin up during AoE fights. And I most certainly can't use them when it matters most (at the start of the fight where peak incoming dmg is highest) because if I do, I lose those curcial initial Swipes..

---

And, yes again. This is the crux of it all as I see it.

Can we aoe tank? yeah. Have I done all the heroics? Yes, except HoS and UP. Possibly could have done UP, but the DPS were trigger happy. HoS, probably should have completed that, but not with 2 mages in my group, if I'd had a DK or pally with me I think I would've completed it. But that comes back to needing an OT.

On 6 second CD's like on TC, I was playing my warrior (only 71) and specced back to prot after being arms for the tail end of BC. When TC is on CD, I missed having swipe available. But then again I'm still feeling out prot. I do know that most of the time TC + shockwave was enough. Half the time I didn't even use Shockwave (I'm really bad about using skills with CD's, yes even 20 seconds, I keep saving them for emergencies, I am working on this). But it was more fun, even if I do lose control of one or 2 mobs, taunt and concussive blow. I love concussive blow for casters that I miss for whatever reason with my initial TC.

Watching for revenge and revenge stunning a caster. I can use cleave for aoe while using my single target abilities before TC comes up again. I am obviously not a warrior pro, and there were aspects of feral that I missed, but for the most part it is more fun. More interactive, and more skills to use, remembering shield bash on casters. I usually can't bash the caster as feral as I'm locked out of GCD due to swipe. Or letting the caster cast and reflecting it. So many more options, I haven't even got around to disarming mobs either, still getting used to the other things to use.

Beats the crap out of swipe + maul.

---

Q u o t e:
to the op,

use your shout ability to get snap aggro before swiping. change targets and maul rotate all of them and get lacerate etc up. if you are trying to tank w/just swipe its going to be hard. its decent for aoe aggro but you need to mix in other things too, its not a 1 button wonder.

shouts have a larger range than swipe will. as druid and warrior they are nice because they are generally cheap and have no cooldown. its not a lot of aggro, but its enough to make something turn to you first usually.

---

Ok lets think this through for a second here. After a fresh powershift, I have 10 rage, right? Right. Demoralizing roar costs 10 rage. So, how do I get the 15 rage needed for a swipe? And I do need the swipe quickly, or else I will lose agro to the healer very quickly, because demo roar doesn't give you that much threat. I could powershift again, but that only gives me 10 rage, and also triggers a GCD, ignoring the fact that demo roar triggers yet another GCD to begin with.

Answer is I have to wait. I have to wait for either a melee swing to hit, or I have to wait for a mob to hit me. Very often times, this wait is way too long. The healer pulls agro, and before I can swipe, the mobs have already either ran behind me or ran out of my swipe range. Now I am screwed.

True at the beginning of some pulls I can powershift/enrage for 30 rage. However this never works in a gauntlet type situation. Either enrage is on CD, or I have to wait too long for that rage to build up.

The only other solution is to coach the healer on how to properly heal a druid tank each time I run with a new healer. But to be honest, I think in the end the healer would rather just say to hell with it and go with a different tank.

---

Q u o t e:
Hell just removing the target requirement on it would do wonders, and I can't really see how such a removal would make the ability overpowered in much of any situation.

---

None of the change requests on swipe would make druids overpowered. I'm not really sure why blizzard is holding out on all this.

"Keep them low because we aren't sure they are struggling enough yet. Some can manage to get the job done so that is good enough."

Is this their mindset? Just because we can "manage" to pull off these AoE encounters doesn't mean it wouldn't have gone 100 times better with any other tank. A buff to druid AoE tanking would be welcomed across the entire WoW community. It isn't harmful to anyone and shouldn't have any affect on PvP at all. So I ask again, why won't they throw us a bone here? We aren't asking to be overpowered, we want to be competitive.

---

Q u o t e:


No, I actually do read them.

I haven't commented on Swipe in some time because a lot of different arguments tend to get mashed together. That in turn makes it hard for us to detect if the ability actually isn't doing its job, or if [some] druids just want it to work differently, or if [some] druids want more different kinds of buttons to push.

Here are the arguments I typically see, roughly ranked in what I think is most to least important.

1-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
2-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
3-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
4-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

---

Almost. I would honestly rank 2-3 as a toss-up for first, with 1 falling in a distinct third, and 4 being way behind.

---

Q u o t e:
None of the change requests on swipe would make druids overpowered. I'm not really sure why blizzard is holding out on all this.

"Keep them low because we aren't sure they are struggling enough yet. Some can manage to get the job done so that is good enough."

Is this their mindset? Just because we can "manage" to pull off these AoE encounters doesn't mean it wouldn't have gone 100 times better with any other tank. A buff to druid AoE tanking would be welcomed across the entire WoW community. It isn't harmful to anyone and shouldn't have any affect on PvP at all. So I ask again, why won't they throw us a bone here? We aren't asking to be overpowered, we want to be competitive.

---

I'm actually starting to expect a nerf coming to all the other tanking classes' AoE capacities, since we're supposedly 'capable' of everything. But that wouldn't happen, now would it..? Heh...

But yeah, I absolutely hate AoE tanking, and its literally all that happens at the level of play I'm in. I'm still trying to figure out how an action so manic can also be so boring.

---

Q u o t e:
1-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
2-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
3-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
4-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

---

This would likely be my order (I kept your numbers). In all reality though, they are all about even with how troublesome they are.
2-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
1-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
3-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
4-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

Its funny... every time i gripe about aoe tanking with a bear due to issues with swipe, i get the whole "QQ mr. i don't need defense" or "QQ spammable aoe" crap.

any druids tried tanking adds on 10 man sarth with 3 drakes up? ah lol that's about the hardest thing i've ever done in this game, picking up 2-3 waves of whelps with no challenging roar up and/or picking up a drake after popping CR on the first wave is awesome.

---

Q u o t e:
why won't they throw us a bone here? We aren't asking to be overpowered, we want to be competitive.

---

Because they are too busy worrying about cat form swipe ..... seriously I have looked for one cat that requested this or a thread involving this I can't find it but holy crap look on ALL boards about Bear Swipe AE tanking soo many including this one

Priorities are WTF out of wack on this one


IMO when they wiped through the Tanking VS Instances whoever had the druid just said + threat and remove target affected from swipe and went off to lunch ..... after if was released its la la la la la la la la la la la la la la druids are still tanking, its just no fun for them or their group and they do it just feed their addiction to get something in wow done and not to enjoy the game.


Its cool I have been playing a druid for a long time its always been this way never gonna change
Major problem = Major ignore

---

Q u o t e:

1-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
2-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
3-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
4-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

---

1, 2, and 3 would be nullified with the addition of a snap threat ability.
Having an AOE Ground Stomp ability seems viable.
If giving druids a new ability is just not an option for whatever reason, tweak demo roar.
Increase the threat caused by it, have it act as an interrupt (for incredibly obnoxious packs like whelps), and put a CD on it.
4 seems irrelevant. From what I've seen, all the people who want more abilities are suggesting things to assist with their mediocre aoe tanking.

---

Q u o t e:
Part of my point was that many of you are posting something to the effect of "All druids agree that the main problem is X," when even within a few posts you see wildly different opinions.

We aren't going to turn Swipe into Thunder Clap, and I don't think many of you are asking for that (though a few are).

The problem is if we changed the cone or if we changed the threat or if we added another ability, then a large portion of this thread at least would respond "But you didn't fix the problem."

So the kinds of discussions we are having are what changes to make to Swipe (if any) that will solve some of these problems without turning Swipe into Thunder Clap.

---

Well can you at least get rid of the friggin' targetting requirement? I would suspect the majority if not all of us would like to see that gone.

Removing the target requirement would make it far less unwieldy and I can't feasibly think of how it not having a target requirement would make it overpowered, its still limited by Rage and pretty useless in fights with less than three targets

Take it off the GCD and make it cost like 25-35 rage in bear/25 energy in cat (when cat swipe goes live), then, the problem is fixed and its not exactly spammable so it won't be too over powered.