edit: bah nvm, decided not to pollute things with my ideas

Thorns damage/threat is too low thats why these guys run past us - if it was higher and in a bigger range they wouldn't be doing so.

Plus many mobs resist it since its nature damage.

Really it should be a bleed/physical damage if you get pricked by a thorn basically its a bleed - should tick on you.

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Q u o t e:
You just suck. L2P.

Druid tanking is fine in heroics if you aren't bad.

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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Smolderthorn&n=Suganem

Oh look you have Brann Spanking New, resto cow!

Oh, wait, you don't.

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Q u o t e:


Well, you can just turn around quickly. It's not like any mobs in those packs STUN your face, right?

:)

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Sarcasm?

Cause the mobs in HVH do stun...

Sorry if I missed it, its early for me.

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Q u o t e:
Really it should be a bleed/physical damage if you get pricked by a thorn basically its a bleed - should tick on you.

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Rogues couldn't Vanish ever if you could buff everyone on your team with a reactively applied bleed dot.

Although I guess this could be a Glyph or something that makes it self-only.

I.e. Glyph of Thorns - boosts Thorns damage and makes it apply a bleed, but makes it self-cast only.

Something I think would be cool, is an ability like a warriors piercing howl that would apply a small amount of threat, and apply a movement debuff, and then that gives us a little extra time to pick it all up with swipe in case say the healer manages to pull some stuff anyways.

That doesn't solve the problem of us always having to spam swipe though, but it would make swipe a lot easier to deal with.

imo there are 2 problems here:

1) swipe does so little tps we are forced to spam it absolutely continuously just to keep aggro on the mobs. We never get a breather to use any gcds to grab extra mobs or do anything else at all tbh.

2) swipe is unwieldy. The frontal cone is fine, but it shouldn't require a target. Let the current range for the secondary targets be the range for the cone, and I think it will be a LOT easier to use.

Tejing

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Q u o t e:
Although i can see myself being able to make use of FFF and Roaring, it's certainly a lot more difficult than merely hitting consecrate on every cooldown. Making swipe a non-target thing would make the most sense to me. It should be more like a frontal Whirlwind, than an infinite-target Hammer of the Righteous, imo.

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Here's a situation I frequently run into. A large pack of trash comes, I swipe and hit maybe the first two, the other 4 didn't get hit and are running after (typically) the healer. (I could use demo roar to pick up all of them initially, but the healer will quickly pull them off again, unless before the PUG begins I have to give him a big lecture about how to properly heal a druid tank.)

I FFF one, he runs to me, I reposition myself so that he is packed with the other mobs, swipe, I taunt another, reposition, swipe, now I have to target another one, feral charge, mangle, reposition, swipe. That last one I can no longer pick up with FFF (which is just how coming off of cooldown at this point) so my best hope is that I can beat on him while he beats on the healer until hopefully taunt is back off of cooldown.

Now this is of course assuming that the DPS haven't even begun hitting any targets yet, because if they have, I guarantee you I'll have lost agro to them by the time I manage to pick up everything.

I could throw the growl (taunt) in before the FFF since it has the longer cooldown, however taunts scale based on existing threat, and that early in the pull it is much easier for somebody to pull off of my taunt than it is for them to pull off of my FFF.

Having to spam shield block on my warrior was annoying. The changed it because they didn't want you to mindlessly spam a single ability.

Having to mindlessly spam swipe is on my druid is annoying. They think that is perfectly acceptable.

Tanking on a DK is so much better. My first few runs I was just like "DnD OMG SHINY CAN'T SEE SPELL DETAIL TOO HIGH PUSH BUTTONS oh I have 60 runic power now I guess I'll Unholy Blight ARGH BUTTONS How the hell do I still have agro? Pull over."

Thats with a boomkin, mage, and warlock 5 levels higher than me unloading AoE as I pull, and I don't even have a good tanking spec.

Made me sad.

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Q u o t e:


No, I actually do read them.

I haven't commented on Swipe in some time because a lot of different arguments tend to get mashed together. That in turn makes it hard for us to detect if the ability actually isn't doing its job, or if [some] druids just want it to work differently, or if [some] druids want more different kinds of buttons to push.

Here are the arguments I typically see, roughly ranked in what I think is most to least important.

-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

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GC you make me happy!

TBH this is the order I would put things in:

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Q u o t e:

-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

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I won't pretend to be the end all to be all master of druids, but when it comes to PVE content, tanking is all I do, and in my experience, this is how it is.

How can druids QQ that GC doesn't read their threads, when if anyone who looks at the blue tracker can see that he posts in druid threads more than any other class. Babies.

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Q u o t e:
removing the GCD is a non starter imo. I think druids just need some form of uncapped aoe threat move (on 6 sec cooldown) that grabs a mobs attention. Tclap for example is not spammable, but it does the job of getting a mobs attention away from healers and to me.

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What exactly do you mean by removing the GCD? Taking it off the GCD? Making it not trigger the GCD? If it is the latter, then that is horribly overpowered, as vs. many mobs swipe will pay for itself via crits. We will bind it to mouse wheel up and instantly kill groups of 10 mobs at once.

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Q u o t e:


No, I actually do read them.

I haven't commented on Swipe in some time because a lot of different arguments tend to get mashed together. That in turn makes it hard for us to detect if the ability actually isn't doing its job, or if [some] druids just want it to work differently, or if [some] druids want more different kinds of buttons to push.

Here are the arguments I typically see, roughly ranked in what I think is most to least important.

-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

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I am glad you are looking at swipe and really appreciate it.

Basically its working, but really its hard in gauntlet type events to time it properly - and the range/angle still seems limited... 270 degree arc would be better if its not currently like this.

As for other abilities - they have nothing to do with swipe but general tanking issues:
1. We need a group silence for caster mobs - like the ones in heroic occ, strat, OK....
2. We need thorns to scale with our AP and not get resisted - turn it into a bleed and make it castable in bear form - more threat/damage.

That should make things easier for ferals and healers.

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Q u o t e:
TBH this is the order I would put things in:



I won't pretend to be the end all to be all master of druids, but when it comes to PVE content, tanking is all I do, and in my experience, this is how it is.

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What he said

Requiring a target being top of the list
With not enough threat a close second

I do not want a cooldown on swipe. Remove the target requirement and up the threat and I will be more able to use other abilities.

I'm a good tank, but I struggle with this in the aoe groups and its very frustrating and has lost the "fun factor".

I am so glad to see GC has been following some of this. Looking forward to see what they can do for us to make it better.

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Q u o t e:


No, I actually do read them.

I haven't commented on Swipe in some time because a lot of different arguments tend to get mashed together. That in turn makes it hard for us to detect if the ability actually isn't doing its job, or if [some] druids just want it to work differently, or if [some] druids want more different kinds of buttons to push.

Here are the arguments I typically see, roughly ranked in what I think is most to least important.

-- Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
-- Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
-- Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
-- Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

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I think that there would be a lot less QQ if swipe had a larger area of effect and that it (rather than or as well as maul or mangle) applied Infected wounds.

In its current form it can be very difficult to round up stray mobs when already dealing with ones you have under control.

All other tanks (I believe) have a way of applying attack speed debuff to multiple mobs at once. We at most with a glyph can apply to 2 at a time and it needs to be stacked 2 times.

Personally I like the frontal cone. It makes me feel like there's some skill in positioning. That said, the amount of mobs that have errant pathing or purposely jump behind me (VH packs) seems quite large in the expansion.

My problem with swipe is that I literally can't do anything else but maul for any group pack. I'm always right on the edge of losing control and can't afford to fit in any other actions. If I sacrifice one or two GCDs for anything else like a berserk or a demo roar I've inevitably lost a mob from range.

I wonder, would it be possible to have demo roar be a large threat move but worth no threat if the target is already debuffed by it? This could potentially alleviate the swipe spam.